Mr. HYMAN moved :

That the following committees have leave to sit during the time that the House is in session : The Select Standing Committee on Railways. Canals and Telegraph Lines, the Select Standing Committee on Miscellaneous Private Bills and the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Hon. A. G. BLAIR (St. John city).

I do not, Mr. Speaker, find myself in any less unpleasant a position to-day than I occupied some two or three weeks ago in explaining the causes of my resignation from the ministry. It is a disagreeable task under any circumstances to criticise and perhaps condemn a measure introduced by a government of which one has so recently been a member, and there are, and there must always be, circumstances attending such criticism and such condemnation as will unfavourably affect many friends, many colleagues and many of those with whom one has been heretofore politically associated. I am pleased, however, Sir, to be able to avail myself of the present opportunity of exonerating the right hon. leader of the government (Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier) from the charge which has been frequently made against him since this difficulty has originated. The right hon. gentleman has been charged with having made a suggestion to me that I should, having the opinions which I entertain with respect to the railway scheme that the government have de-tel-mined upon, remain a member of the government and should quietly and silently continue to act as a colleague with him in that administration. The charge which has been preferred is that this proposition was made by himself to me. I am bound to say, in justice to the right hon. gentleman, that the proposition did not emanate from him, and I make this statement, not at his instance, but as a matter of fair play to him and of fair play to myself. In the correspondence which ensued pending my contemplated resignation I referred, as you will remember, to the circumstance that such a suggestion had been made in Council, and I mentioned the reasons which I thought had rendered it impossible for me to favourably entertain such a suggestion. I did it because I thought that there were perhaps

members of Council who would think I wds over punctilious in declining to pursue that course, and I was glad afterwards that I had mentioned it in the correspondence, because there are many warm personal friends ou the government side who, between the time that my resignation was known and the time that the explanations were made, have criticised me because I had not pursued that very same course. I say, therefore, that I very gladly avail myself of the present opportunity to make that matter straight.

The right hon. gentleman has laid before parliament and before the country a statement of the reasons why he has presented this measure to the House, and the defence of that measure. He has given us to understand that this scheme is a scheme devised for the purpose of securing for the people of Canada a great transcontinental railway which will afford to the people of the east and west the shortest and cheapest route for the carriage of their traffic. And at the same time, and in the same connection, my right hon. friend, with a good deal of self-satis-factiou X am sure, and with apparently much pride, told us that, this great project was to be a grand national all-Canadian line. If such a policy well defined and well considered in all its bearings, and so studied that a just conclusion could be reached that it was a proper and necessary work in the interest of Canada, if such a project surrounded by these conditions were presented to parliament, then one might well be glad that such a venture should be entered upon by the government of the country, and it naturally would excite a very great deal of enthusiasm among the people of all shades of politics.

I followed the right hon. the Prime Minister in the statement which he made with the closest interest ; and it is only fair to the right lion, gentleman to say that if the grace of eloquence, if the finest and choicest language, if eloquence coupled as I know it was with the sincerest conviction that the measure was a proper and judicious one; if these things could have carried conviction to the minds of members of parliament, then I say that members of parliament and the country generally would have been impressed by the Prime Minister's presentation of the case. But, Sir, speaking for myself and for myself alone, while I was impressed with the singular ability of the right hon. gentleman, and while X felt that all had been said by him that could be said by anybody, and much more than could have been said by any one else with the same effect ; yet,' I still felt myself absolutely and entirely unconvinced, and I still felt that the objections which existed in my mind against this measure almost in its entirety had not been removed except but in a very small degree.

Hear, hear.

Hon. Mr. BIjAIR. The government of this country, realizing the enormous magnitude of this measure; realizing that it is perhaps a measure without parallel in the history of this country ; realizing that no question so momentous in its nature, and involving such large responsibilities on the country had ever been presented to parliament since the confederation of the provinces of British North America ; realizing also that this decision and determination to carry this project through, if it could be carried through this parliament, and if the assent of the country could be secured for it; realizing all this, my right hon. friend very naturally felt that the people of the country would expect that some satisfactory explanation should be furnished, as to why, with such unusual and such unexampled haste a measure of this magnitude and tins character had been pressed upon them. My right hon. friend, realized this as any one with the same responsibilities and occupying the same position would have realized it, and therefore, we observe that the very first feature of this whole question to which the Prime Minister directed his attention, was to repel if possible the charge, or to answer if possible the accusation which must have entered into the mind of almost everybody from one part of Canada to the other, that this question had been sprung with undue haste and without due deliberation. The right hon. gentleman undertook an answer to that phase of the case, and I will give the House in his own words the answer which he gave. Let me tell the House in the first place, however, what the right hon. gentleman did not say in explanation of his course. He did not deny that there had not been deliberation; he did not affirm that the government of the country had availed itself of all proper sources of information, and had waited until they had exhausted all the means in their power to ascertain what the conditions were in the various portions of the country which this road was to traverse; he did not tell us the need which had arisen for us to jump headlong into a scheme of this kind; he did not tell us that he had summoned to his assistance the wisest counsels which the country could afford ; he did not tell us that he had sought the assistance of experts in order to know what the traffic conditions were which would make this railway desirable ; he did not even pretend to tell us that he had done these things ; but, Sir, I will quote his own language as to what he did say, to repel what was almost a self-accusation. The right hon. gentleman said :

Exception has been taken to the immediate necessity of building such a road, exception has been taken to the policy which we have to suggest for the immediate construction of such a road : but as to the idea itself I have never heard a word of opposition, nor do I believe that such a word will he heard in the debate. The first of these objections, that is to the im-

Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

mediate consttruo'tion of such a road, can be disposed of, I believe, with a single observation. To those who urge upon us the policy of to-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow ; to those who tell us, wait, wait, wait ; to those who advise us to pause, to consider, to reflect, to calculate and to inquire, -our answer is : No, this is not a time for deliberation, this is a time for action. The flood of tide is upon us that, leads on to fortune ; if we let it pass it may never recur again. If we let i.t pass, the voyage of our national life, bright as it is to-day, will be bound in shallows. We cannot wait, because time does not wait ; we cannot wait because, in these days of wonderful development, time lost is doubly lost ; we cannot wait, because at this moment there is a transformation going on in the conditions of our -national (life which it would be folly to ignore and a crime to overlook We say that to-day it is the

duty of the Canadian government, it is the duty of the Canadian parliament, it is the duly of all those who have la mandate from .the people to attend to the needs and requirements of this fast growing country, to give heed to that condition of things. We consider that it is the duty of all those Who Bit within these walls by the will of the people, to provide immediate means whereby the products of those new settlers may find an exit to the ocean at the least possible cost ; and whereby, likewise, a market may be found in this new region for those who toii in the forests, in the fields, in the mines, in the shops of the older provinces. Such is our duty ; it is immediate and imperative. It is not of to-morrow, hut of this day, of this hour and of this minute. Heaven grant that it be not already too late ; heaven grant that whilst we tarry land dispute, 'the tirade of Canada is not deviated to other channels.

Now, Mr. Speaker, it is only fair that I should call the grave and serious attention of this parliament and of this country to the statement which the right lion, gentleman has made. As I said, it is not a denial of the charge that there has been want of deliberation and undue and improper baste in this matter. It is not a denial of the charge that the government have not studied the question, and before I conclude my observations on this Bill, this resolution and this contract, I think I will convince the majority-well, I will convince the minds of the majority of this House at all events, that what is alleged against the government in this regard is absolutely and entirely true.

Some lion. MEMBERS. Hear, hear.

What does the right lion, gentleman mean when he says-

The flood of tide is upon us that leads on to fortune : if we let it pass it may never recur again.

What does the right hon. gentleman mean when1 he says :

If we let it pass the voyage of our national life bright as it is to-day will he bound in 'Shallows.

What does the right hon. gentleman mean when he says :

We cannot wait because time does not wait.

I think, Mr. Speaker, and I say it with all respect to my right hon. friend, that

it would have been as correct if not so poetic for him to have said : We cannot wait because Senator Cox cannot wait.

Hear, hear.

Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

What does the right hon. gentleman mean by saying :

We cannot wait because in these days of wonderful development time lost is doubly lost.

What does he mean by saying : that to wait would be to destroy our future national life. Wherein is our national life going to be destroyed because perchance we take the proper time in order to study what we are doing, and in order to reach a wise and just conclusion with regard to an enterprise which is vaster, greatly vaster than any that has ever before engaged the consideration of this parliament. I fail to discover wherein we have to appeal to heaven against tlie possibility of a little delay in this matter I know of no reason why the interests of Canada are going to he prejudicially affected because when we move forward we see the end. or think we see the end, to which we are looking, because we know the limits of the responsibilities by which we assume to be bound, and because we believe we understand the conditions under which we are operating. Why is it said by my hon. friend in this manner and In these terms, that we must not pause a moment to deliberate V Government may possibly not deliberate, but parliament has a right to deliberate, the country has a right to deliberate; and in my judgment, Sir, before we impose a burden of such great magnitude on the neck of the people of Canada, before we commit this country by an Act of this parliament to a scheme of such large and extraordinary proportions, it is only just to the people of Canada that they should have a chance to talk it over, and think about it, that the press should discuss it, and that everybody in the country should know what the government are contemplating. I cannot help feeling that it is rather a condition of hysteria than a condition of calm reason and judgment-I cannot .help feeling that it is a condition of sentimental exaltation that has inspired the hurry and haste with which this measure is pressed forward; because I will not believe it possible that any other than a straightforward and honourable motive has inspired my colleagues in this transaction.

My hon. friend, having disposed of this question of want of deliberation, proceeds to take up another question which he regards as one of very grave and serious magnitude. With all the skill of an old parliamentary hand, with all the deftness and ability which we know he can successfully employ; my hon. friend, referring to Carnegie and his threats, quoting what was said by President Cleveland, reading from despatches, and otherwise, succeeded in working up our anxiety and arousing our

fears-and he must have succeeded in convincing many of our friends on this side of the House-that we were on the verge of a very grave calamity, that an awful abyss was yawning before us, that we were looking down a precipice, and were on the eve of being precipitated to its depths in everlasting ruin and disaster. And then, Sir, after my hon. friend had brought them up to the edge of that yawning precipice, he was to relieve them of their distress and anxiety by telling them, ' we have saved you by our measure; we have rescued you from the dreadful danger which was threatening you; we are going to give you an all-Canadian line, which is going to save you from the possibility of having your commerce destroyed and your business ruined by the action of the people to the south of you.' Let me refer to the language which the'lion, gentleman used in that connection, in order that 1 may quote him with absolute accuracy. ' Luckily,' he says :

Luckily, Sir, up to this moment, we have escaped the danger with which, on repeated occasions, we have been threatened. But, sir, what would happeD if a.t any moment there should come one of those frenzies, one of those periods of excitement which we have seen sometimes amongst nations, the American nation included. At any moment we may be deprived of the bonding privilege which we have had up to the present. The only way whereby we can contemplate such a contingency with equanimity is to provide against it, and to have upon our own territory all the facilities by which we can get access to our own harbours. These are the reasons why we apply to parliament to give its countenance to the policy which I have outlined, a policy which will give to this new- Transcontinental Railway at our own harbour. by an all-Canadian route to reach it.

Now, I want to ask the calm reason and judgment of this parliament-and, if need be, the appeal will have to be made to the calm judgment and sober reason of the people of Canada-when we have had the bonding privilege between Canada and the United States in existence for all these years; when, if ever there was a danger, that danger has been minimized; when the conditions existing in the United States are just as potent to prevent the possibility of any such action being taken by the United States government; when the number of American railways crossing our territory from one portion of that country to another, and the shipping which comes to the leading-ports of the United States, are carrying to the merchants of Canada and from the dealers in Canada goods which are a profit to them; when they would be actually striking at and destroying their own trade and commerce if they adopted such a course-why my hon. friend should feel impelled at this late date, after all these years, and after we have been seven years in the government of this country and have never felt even a thrill by reason of that possibility-why my hon. friend and the government for whom he speaks should come to us now, Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

in the frenzied rush, the impetuous haste, which lias inspired this legislation, and tell us that we are in deadly peril, and in the utmost danger of having our commerce destroyed by the action of a friendly government ? X ask the members of this House why is this pretense put forward, or this argument-I will not knowingly use any term offensive to any of my hon. friends here-why is this argument put forward V It must be because there is an absence of real, good, substantial argument to sustain the case itself, and my hon. friends feel obliged to appeal to the prejudices and feelings, and to arouse the passions of the people of Canada in order to carry through a measure which, on its merits, they would have no hope whatever of carrying. I noticed that when both this and the preceding defence were made by the right hon. gentleman, our friends on this side of the House were wild with enthusiasm. I do not know whether the enthusiasm was because of the relief which seemed to come to them after the period of strained anxiety was over, on account of the boundary peril or whether the real reason was that they felt great satisfaction in finding that even a flimsy argument could be made in support of the government's policy.

Now, Sir, what foundation is there, i ask, for the statement that our conditions, when this road is built, if it ever is built, will be any different from what they are to-day ? I want to know upon what foundation is the suggestion made that we are in deadly peril by reason of the possible action of a frenzied people, if frenzy should seize the people of the American republic. Why, Sir, we have to-day a railroad which traverses this continent; we have two railroads which run to the province of New Brunswick, with both of which connection could be made if need be; and we need not pass over American territory, even though the restriction were sought to be placed upon us by the American government. We could avail ourselves of those railroads, and they are just as transcontinental, just as Canadian, just as national, as any railroads we could construct in Canada. They are railroads on Canadian soil, and one of them at least is owned by the government of the country itself.

b'or myself I would have much preferred that this argument, at all events, had not been presented by my right hon. friend. I would have much preferred that it had been left to somebody else to declare to the world at large that the Canadian people are at the mercy of any other people. I am loath to acknowledge that we have not in ourselves to-day the means to protect ourselves against any such possibility, and I do not like to have the word go across the ocean and throughout the wide world that Canada is hemmed in by the United States and unable to protect herself, or, what is very much the equivalent, that it requires

the expenditure by Canada of one hundred and odd millions of money in order to get relief. I do not think that there is any such question to-day to be feared as the abrogation of the bonding privilege. The period when we might have feared it has long since passed away ; and whatever may be the merits or demerits of this government scheme which we are now discussing, I do trust that no man's judgment is going to be influenced in favour of what he would otherwise consider a defective and unjustifiable measure because this bogey of the abrogation of the bonding privilege has been raised.

The next leading proposition which the hon. gentleman presented was that we need an all-Canadian transcontinental line from ocean to ocean. Let me again quote the hon. gentleman's language, in order that I may toe entirely accurate :

We ask parliament to assent to this policy because we believe-nay, we feel certain, and certain beyond a doubt'-that in ;so doing we give voice and expression to a sentiment, a latent but deep sentiment, which is to-day in the mind, and still more in the heart, of every Canadian, that a railway to extend from the shores of the Atlantic ocean to the shores of the Pacific ocean, and to be, every inch of it, on Canadian soil, is a national a.s well as a commercial necessity. That such a road must be built, that it is, in the language which I have used, a national and a commercial necessity, that it is a corollary of our status as a nation, that it is a requisite of our commercial development, is a proposition to which, up to this moment, I have heard no dissent.

The necessary implication from that argument is that a road from ocean to ocean through 'Canadian territory does not now exist; and if we are to accept this inference, if we are to allow it to influence our judgment, then we will be misled-misled unquestionably, although I would be sorry to convey the impression that I thought my right hon. friend would wilfully attempt to mislead this parliament or the country. But certainly, if parliament were to accept this implication, it would he misled beyond all doubt and question. What constitutes an allCanadian national line ? Does it mean a railway line spanning the continent from ocean to ocean and owned entirely by one corporation ? Well, we have such a line now. We have even, I might almost say, got two such lines. Then why should we be influenced by this implication ? We ought not to be influenced by it. If that is the sole necessity, and my right hon. friend said that were it not for this question of the bonding privilege he would not now be asking this parliament to assent to this proposition of a transcontinental road.

Finding the reasons assigned in support of the proposition inadequate, finding the ground giving way and the foundation dropping out, what is to be the outcome of the measure itself, if it is to be dealt with as similar measures, under other circumstances, would be dealt with by any deliberative body ? The line, my right hon. friend claims, is both a national and a commercial line, but yet he says it is not a commercial line in the sense that you are to count on a profit or loss. Well, Sir, what is a commercial line if it is not a line constructed according to the dictates of commercial needs and which involves, necessarily and inevitably, the idea of profit or loss? You may build a sentimental line, but if so, tell the people that it is a line which you are building for sentimental purposes. Or, if you are building it for commercial purposes, say so. But my right hon. friend does not seem to be willing to consider it entirely the one or the other. It is a compound of both. He says it is not, in the ordinary sense, a commercial line, but is an all-Canadian line. Well, unless there be some pressing need for it, I do not see why the people of this country should be saddled with an obligation of $100,000,000 of money and an addition to their liability, as I shall show, of an amount exceeding that. Unless there be something behind which has not been disclosed and which renders it necessary, I can see no reason now for the construction of this proposed national line. Both the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Canadian Northern Railway are national lines in the widest acceptation of the term. They do not traverse the whole country from ocean to ocean, but if you will look across the border, I think it will give you some difficulty to point to any transcontinental railway there in the sense mentioned by the right hon. gentleman. You cannot find any railway in that country which starts from the Atlantic and ends at the Pacific, and which is under one control. I do not know of any. Their great lines east and west meet about the centre of the continent, and are the result of a process of development. Our American neighbours have not been trying to perform any spectacular feat by spending a large amount of money unnecessarily. They have done what the business needs of tbe country called for. Less than that we ought not to do ; more than that we would toe wrong in doing.

These are the four chief reasons which I gather from a careful reading of the right hon. gentleman's address why this measure should commend itself to our approval. But there is another, a general reason, which he gave. The country, he says, is crying out for another transcontinental railway. Mr. Speaker, my ears have been open,

I have been a willing listener to any demand of this kind, and I am bound to say that I have not heard any great outcry for another transcontinental line from ocean to ocean. I do not know where the cry was made that it reached others. It was not made, at all events, so that it reached me.

I may have occasion, before concluding my remarks, to refer to this question again, and therefore will pass from it for the moment. Those who have been criticising this

measure, myself among the number, as an opponent of'the Bill, are taunted with being timid, with being deficient in pluck, unable to grasp a large problem, somewhat provincial in our ideas, and incapable of appreciating the increasing growth and progress of Canada. I deny this charge, and, as far as my denial may be of any value,

I want to make it emphatic. I am not open to any such reflection. I do not admit at all that a well digested, well considered scheme of railway development, a scheme called for by the needs of the country and to be proceeded with as soon as it could be reasonably proceeded with, would be opposed by me. I would not be found placing any opposition whatever in the way of such a scheme. I am as willing that the resources of this country should be taxed to the full ability of the country for the purpose of railway development, reasonably necessary to develop the illimitable resources of this great country, as any man in this House. But, Sir, I am not thereby prevented from saying to those who ask me to give my assent to this project: How do you reach your conclusions ? On what information are you going ? Have you exhausted the necessary sources of information, and where is this thing going to end ? It is only the part of reasonable prudence for a man to do that. Nobody is worthy of the great trust which the people of the country is reposing in those to whom they have intrusted the administration of their affairs unless he is prepared to resist pressure brought on him to act hastily, and unless he is determined to give to the subject that careful study and deliberation which will justify him in assuming the responsibility of proposing the legislation asked for. I felt. Sir. as one, and particularly, as Minister of Railways in my hon. friend's government, that the country would expect me to apply my judgment to the questions which came' up. Having somewhat more experience in the matter of railway construction and railway operation than many of my colleagues, and being charged particularly with the government's business in that regard, I felt that on me would rest a larger measure of responsibility ; and I was entitled to know enough, and to see into the matter far enough, to justify me in asking parliament with a clear conscience and well settled conviction to give its assent to the proposition to be laid before it. Barely six months ago this question was first mooted. Six months is not a long time to consider and weigh and look into a project of this kind, which had not been mooted before ; particularly when it is borne in mind that a large portion of these six months has been occupied by the sitting of parliament, when every minister has his hands full, when his thoughts are fully engrossed with the business of the session, and when some have particularly important measures pending before the House.

Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

In that, I speak for myself, because,, as Minister of Railways, I was charged with the carrying forward of a piece of legislation which was very important, and which required the best thought and attention I could give it, in order that it might be perfected at every point. This being the case, was this the time for one to endeavour to comprehend and shape and advise upon, and think out a proposition of this magnitude ? Why, you have only to dwell upon it for a moment to see how unreasonable such a suggestion is. Every session of parliament we put off things of the most trivial moment because we have not time to deal with them. Every session, Bills that are pressed upon us are put by until the following session, simply because we have our hands full. Yet, right on the eve of the sitting of parliament, after we had taken up large policies, after we had arranged to propose large expenditures, when it was known that we were going to have our best thoughts and acutest judgment strained to the utmost to do justice to the subjects with which we would have to deai, we undertake to grapple with a problem of this immensity and complexity, and one involving such great financial and other responsibilities. Well, Mr. Speaker, the bonding privilege up to that time had never impressed anybody ; the imperious need of a great transcontinental all-national line had never forced itself upon anybody's mind. Within a few weeks of this sitting lof parliament this thing is first mooted. And here we are now putting the final ratification-if we shall do it- upon a measure, which, when it is once passed is beyond recall, which, when once passed is so irrevocably done that the people of Canada will have no more to say as to whether this thing shall go on, than will the common council of any county in the land. My hon. friends have taken the precaution-I do not say they have unfairly token the precaution, but the precaution has been taken-of making a contract with somebody representing the Grand Trunk Pticific, a company not even yet incorporated, somebody who undertakes to speak for the Grand Trunk Pacific as to what the company will so do, and also with somebody who undertakes to say what the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada will do : and they have signed this

contract in all its details, with all its clauses and conditions, and they have put that upon the Table, and they say to us : Accept this or reject it; take it as it is, or leave it; you have but one alternative, to swallow the whole, or reject the whole.

Now, I want to know also, in all calmness and all frankness, from the members of this parliament, from whence comes this irresistible and compulsive pressure under which we must drive this thing through now ? The thing was never mooted before, and the government took no action, until

the Grand Trunk Railway Company conceived that it would be in their own interest to* have the railway project liberally aided by the parliament of Canada which they desired to promote. That is the secret of the whole business ; that is where it originated. All the other considerations fell upon unheeding ears. All these dangers never struck our minds, never seem to have entered into our calculations ; it never oc-cured to us that we were under such imminent peril; it never was suggested by anyone that the great future of Canada, the very life of Canada was at stake-until the Grand Trunk Railway Company made a call and laid their proposition before my hon. friends and colleagues of the government. I make bold to say that there is no evidence that the people of this country demand this legislation. I will commence with the province of British Columbia and ask you : Is there any call, loud

or weak from the province of British Columbia that another railway should be put through the passes of the Rockies and carried to Fort Simpson ? If there is, I have not heard it. I would like to see the proof that can be brought in support of any such statement. Such a feeling does not exist. I have no doubt that the people of the province of British Columbia, if this railway venture is going on, would like to see it pushed through their province. But I know that when it comes to the question of railway aid and construction in that province, the files of the Department of Railways will show what railways they want; and among them is not included a transcontinental railway into that province. Go oyer the files of the department, and you will find that the railways that they chiefly want are those that will go through southern British Columbia and give means by which the mineral products of that country can be taken to market. That is what they are asking for. Therefore, I say that, from wherever else the cry may come calling for the building of such a line as my hon. friends propose, that cry does not proceed from the province of British Columbia. Well, have we heard any loud appeal from the sister province of Ontario ? Have we heard even a whisper of it before this thing was suggested ? Of course, I do not deny that the very moment it is known that, the government of the country is determined upon carrying out this project, you will hear cries innumerable in favour of it. Then all the papers and all the men who are friendly to the government will take up that cry, if their judgment or their consciences will allow them to do so. When the project is announced, then the cry will exist ; but it did not exist, there was no voice, there was no word of it before the suggestion came from our friends in Montreal. Now, is there any cry in the west for a transcontinental railway ? I dare say I may be taking up a position which 264

is singular to myself, because I observe very little in the public press suggesting a doubt as to the necessity or advisability of more railways in the West. I have studied the question somewhat, and I do not know just how soon or how far in the future the time might be when such a line as this would be called for by the West; but now or in the immediate future there would have been no demand for any such railway project as this.

Mr. McCREARY.

Does the hon. gentleman mean on the Western prairies ?

Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

Yes.

Mr. McCREARY.

I say there is congestion there through which the farmers of the country lost over six millions of dollars last year.

Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

My hon. friend (Mr. McCreary) will find that I have not altogether lost sight of this question of the congestion of which he speaks ; he will find that I have considered it. Whether I have reached a just and proper conclusion or not will remain for those who consider the subject

Mr. McCREARY.

Hear, hear.

Hon. Mr. BLAIR.

Yes. I intend to present the argument. Let the arguments be dealt with, as they will be in the discretion of every one who hears them. I say, there has been no cry in the west for more railways, in the way of east and west long lines. My hon. friend (Mr. McCreary) says that there was a great deal of wheat remaining to be taken out last year. Was that because of the lack of another railway up through the undeveloped northern portion of that western country ? No, Sir, that cry came not because there were not railways enough, but because the railways they had were not equipped with enough locomotives and enough cars. That is what the congestion arose from. These people have had no difficulty at all from any other cause than the shortage and shrinkage in the equipment upon these railways. If you have read carefully what has been said by these people, you will find that there is a general consensus of opinion that that was the trouble, and not because they wanted other railways, to be constructed just now in the unpeopled territory. The traffic was congested, but I think the congestion will very soon be overcome. I think perhaps it may be pretty well provided against now. But I state now that the three railroads-and I am including the Manaitoba and North-western, for although they are branches they are still extending largely to the west and north-west -they are providing that country with all reasonable railway facilities that are needed at present.

Now. there has been no press agitation. Let me add that I have not heard of any agitation in the maritime provinces or in

the province of Quebec. In the city of Quebec and neighbourhood there is quite a feeling in favour of some assistance being given to a railway that was to travel over much this same route ; and so far as that sentiment has been expressed it is entitled to consideration. I, myself, have been in sympathy with it, and I am going to state fully what my opinion is in that regard before I conclude my observations. But I do say that there has been no demand in the North-west for a grand transcontinental line from ocean to ocean ; there has been none in the maritime provinces. I never heard of any, and I would have heard it if it existed. Nobody ever heard of this project, at all events, until this session of parliament was half way through ; no one 'ever heard it mooted as a scheme that was under consideration by this government, or likely to be submitted to parliament for an extension of this line to Moncton. There has been no press agitation in favour of it during the last six months, no platform agitation, no discussion in parliament, nobody has risen in any numbers, or even in units, and said that we want another transcontinental railway, moving motions, urging the government to that course. Nobody has been calling for this, therefore it is a mistake, it is misleading, to say that there is a great cry in the country which impels this government to adopt the policy that has been determined upon. Moreover, Mr. Speaker, it is fair to add that when this matter did first come up for consideration, when the Grand Trunk Railway Company first moved in this direction, it was not for this scheme that they moved : they moved for a much more limited scheme, they moved for a scheme which involved aid to a railway to North Bay, as they told us publicly. That was their idea, these other features have been added since, and 1 suppose it was considered necessary by reason of the fact that these bonding privileges had been imperilled, and other direful consequences seemed to be imminent.

Now, Sir, when we consider all these facts, and other facts, it would seem to be almost incredible that, under such circumstances, no heed should be paid to an appeal that we should go slow, that we should see what we are doing, that we should carefully study the bearings of the question in all fts aspects. I would have thought there is scarcely one minister in the government, burdened with all the duties which during a parliamentary session are cast upon members of the government, but would have hesitated to take a step of this magnitude during the present session. However, Sir we have the scheme before us, and we must deal with it as it is. I think that a different scheme might have been with greater advantage to the country devised. If we were to consider the interests of the country as being paramount to any desires or any wishes of any railway company, I think a different scheme