Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Resolved, that it is expedient to approve, ratify, and confirm the agreement made on the 19-th of October, 1903, between the Quebec Bridge and Railway Company, represented by the Hon. Simon Napoleon Parent, the president thereof, and Hi-s Majesty the King, represented by the Honourable William Stevens Fielding, acting Minister of Railways and Canals, a copy of Which agreement is hereto annexed :-

Agreement made this Nineteenth Day of October,

in the Year of Our Lord one Thousand Nine Hundred and Three.

Between

The Quebec Bridge and Railway Company, a corporation duly incorporated and organized under the laws of the Dominion of Canada, having its chief place of business in the said city of Quebec, and herein acting and represented by the Honourable Simon Napoleon Parent, president, duly and specially authorized for the purposes hereof under a resolution passed at a meeting of the board of directors of the said company on the first day of October, 1903, a copy of which said resolution remains annexed to the original of these presents, and is signed by the parties hereto, in order to identify the same (hereinafter called the company) of the one part ;

And His Majesty King Edward the Seventh, acting in respect of the Dominion of Canada, herein represented and acting by the Honourable William Stevens Fielding, His Majesty's acting Minister of Railways and Canals of Canada (hereinafter called the government) of the other part.

Whereas the company has by several Acts of the parliament of Canada been duly authorized and empowered to lay out, construct, maintain, work, manage and use a railway bridge, with the necessary approaches, over the St. Lawrence river at or near the city of Quebec, and also to lay out, construct and operate the following lines of railway :-

(a.) Commencing at or near the northern terminus of the bridge of the company at a point in the parish of St. Foye, in the county of Quebec, thence easterly following the general line of the St. Lawrence river to the city of Quebec ;

(b.) iComtmencing at a point at or near the southern terminus of the said bridge, in the county of L6vis, to a point at or near the intersection of the Grand Trunk Railway with the Intercolonial Railway at Chaudiere curve, in the county of Levis; or to some point on the Grand Trunk Railway, or on the Intercolonial Railway, near such point of intersection ;

And whereas it is the intention of the company to provide by the construction of the said bridge and works for the conveyance of traffic across the River St. Lawrence at or near the city of Quebec, and to provide terminal and other facilities for the interchange of traffic between the railways which are or may be hereafter constructed near the said bridge upon the north and south sides of the said river, and which may be desirous of making use of such facilities;

And whereas the company has been duly organized and has issued two hundred thousand dollars ($209,000) of its authorized capital stock of one million dollars ($1,000,000), upon which the shareholders have paid the sunt of $65,585.70;

And whereas the government of the province of Quebec has granted a subsidy to aid in the construction of the said works to the amount of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250,000) and has paid the whole amount thereof ;

And whereas the municipality of the city of Quebec has granted a subsidy to aid in the construction of the said bridge to the amount of three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) and has paid the whole amount thereof ;

And whereas the government has granted a subsidy towards the construction of the said bridge to an amount not exceeding one millien dollars ($1,000,000) and has paid to the company on account of the said subsidy the sum of three hundred and seventy-four thousand three hundred and fifty-three dollars ($374,353),.

And whereas the substructure and approaches of the said bridges have been completed, and a portion of the superstructure has been constructed ;

And whereas the company has so far expended upon said works the sum of $914,862, and is indebted in respect of the same work in the sum of $779,550, including at par value bonds to the extent of $472,000, upon which was realized the sum of $283,270;

And whereas the amount necessary to complete the said bridge and the said lines of railway and to provide the necessary terminal and other facilities, as well as to pay off the aforesaid amount of the present indebtedness of the company, ie estimated at the sum of $6,866,882 ;

And whereas the company is unable to proceed with' the said work without further assistance from the government and it has applied to the government for such assistance, which the government has agreed to grant, in the manner and form and upon the terms and conditions hereinafter set forth and declared ;

Now, this agreement witnesseth that in pursuance of the said agreement and for the considerations herein appearing,

The said company and the government mutually covenant, promise and agree to and with each other in manner following, that is to say:-

1. In these presents the expression 'undertaking' shall mean and include the said bridge and approaches, the said lines of railway, and the terminal and other facilities to he constructed as aforesaid.

The expression 'the company' shall mean and include as well as the said company, their successors and assigns, and the expression 'the government' shall mean and include as well as His Majesty King Edward the Seventh, His heirs and successors.

2. The company releases and forgoes any claim which it may have upon the government for any balance now remaining unpaid of the said subsidy of $1,000,000 so granted by the government as aforesaid, and also any other rights or claims against the government other than such as are hereinafter set forth and expressly declared.

3. The company will forthwith arrange with the present subscribers of the capita] stock of the company that such subscribers shall surrender such stock to the company, and in lieu thereof accept paid-up stock for the amount paid by them on their shares, the company relieving them 'from further liability upon the stock so surrendered.

4. The company will procure subscriptions for additional stock to the amount of $200,000, such new stock to he issued at a price not below par and to he immediately paid up in full, the proceeds to be applied in the first place in the payment of the discount at which the bonds of the company were issued as aforesaid, to wit, the sum of $188,721.

5. When and sc soon as the company shall have completed all the arrangements mention- ,

ed in the two preceding clauses, and the proceeds of the said issue of $200,000 stock shall have been paid in full to the company, the company shall be at liberty to issue such bonds, debentures or other securities as hereinafter provided to an amount not exceeding $6,678,200.

6. The said bonds, debentures' or other securities shall be issued by the company upon the credit of the company and upon the security of its undertaking and property, and upon the franchises, tolls, rents and revenues thereof, and shall form thie first charge upon the same, and shall be secured by a mortgage thereon, as hereinafter provided. They shall be issued payable in fifty years from the date thereof, and shall bear interest at the rate of three per centum per annum, payable halfyearly, and shall be issued as hereinafter provided. The proceeds of such securities shall be applied in payment of the balance of the existing obligations and indebtedness of the company, including any bonds or mortgages issued in respect thereof and not herein otherwise provided for ; in the construction and completion of the undertaking, and for the acquisition of the right of way, and other lands, which the company is authorized to acquire or expropriate for the purposes of the undertaking, and in the payment of land damages in connection therewith.

7. The government shall guarantee the payment of the principal and interest of the bonds, debentures or other securities of the company to an amount not exceeding $6,678,200. The said bonds, debentures or other securities shall be issued as to provide for monthly payments, as far as practicable, to the company, and they shall be issued, or the proceeds thereof paid to the company, as the construction ^f the undertaking is proceeded with to the satisfaction of the government, and in such sums as the chief engineer of the government railways or such other officer as the government may appoint may certify are justified.

8. The kind of securities to be so guaranteed and the form and denomination thereof, as well as the time and manner of their issue and the form and manner of guarantee, shall be subject to the approval of the Governor in Council.

9. The mortgage to secure such securities shall be made to a trustee or trustees approved by the Governor in Council, and the form and terms of the mortgage shall he subject to the like approval.

10. All moneys paid by the government under the said guarantee shall be held to be paid in discharge of the liability of the government, but not in discharge of^ the liability of the company under the securities guaranteed or under the mortgage securing them, and the moneys so paid shall be held to be still secured by the said securities and mortgage, and the government shall he subrogated in all the rights of the holders of the securities, the interest upon or the principal of which has been paid by the government, and the government shall, in respect of all moneys so paid, be in all respects in the position of security holders in respect of whose securities default has been made in payment to the extent of the moneys paid by the government.

11. The company shall not create or issue any further stock, shares, bonds or interests in the company or its undertaking other than and except as provided for by and in these presents.

12. The plans and specifications for all the works of the undertaking shall be submitted to and approved by the Governor in Council before any work is constructed thereunder.

13^ The continuation of the work of constructing the said undertaking shall be proceeded with so soon as the plans thereof are submitted to and approved by the Governor in Council, and the said undertaking shall be completed not later than the first day of December, 1906.

14. Upon the execution of this agreement, the Governor in Council shall have the right to appoint three directors of the company, the number of directors to be elected by the shareholders of the company being limited to eight, and the directors so appointed and elected shall constitute the board of directors of the company. The directors appointed by the Governor in Council need not be possessed of the qualifications required in the case of elected directors. They shall be entitled as such directors to the same fees or allowances from the company as are paid or allowed to the other directors.

15. The Governor in Council shall fix the tolls and further shall make regulations with regard to the use of the undertaking so as to secure the right to the use and enjoyment thereof to all railway companies which may desire to connect therewith, upon fair and equal terms, without preference to one railway over another.

16. From and after the first day of December, 1906, or the date of the completion of the undertaking, whichever shall first happen, the company shall, out of the net income of the undertaking, that is to say, after payment out of the income of the expense of operation and other charges for maintenance and repairs and for renewals of the said undertaking, or any part or parts thereof, and of the interest upon the bonded indebtedness, annually pay to the government for the purpose of forming a sinking fund for the redemption of the bonded indebtedness of the company a sum equal to one-half of one per cent of the total amount of such bonded indebtedness.

17. If in any year or years the net income of the undertaking is insufficient to pay the amount required for the said sinking fund, the net income of any subsequent year or years shall be applied in the first place in reduction or payment of such deficiency, together with interest at the rate of three per centum, per annum.

18. The company agrees that the government may exercise, and the government hereby reserves the right to take over the whole of the undertaking, assets, property and franchises of the company, at any time, on paying the shareholders the amount of their stock at the par value thereof, not exceeding the amount of $265,585.70, with simple interest at five per centum per annum upon such amount as from the date or dates of the payment or payments upon the original or any substituted stock, such interest, however, to be charged with and reduced by the amount of the dividends (if any) which shall have accrued and been paid to the said shareholders respectively, so that no more interest than five per centum per annum, after deducting all dividends, shall in any case be paid to the said shareholders. The government, in addition to interest ascertained in manner aforesaid, shall pay to the shareholders a premium of ten p^r centum upon the par value of the fully paid shares. Such right to

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

take over the undertaking may be exercised at any time by the government upon giving one month's notice to the company, which shall thereupon, and upon payment by the government to the shareholders aforesaid, grant, surrender and release to the government all their right, title and interest in and to the said undertaking and to the fVanchises- and all other assets and property of the company of whatsoever nature or kind, subject to the payment of such obligations of the Company as may have been contracted with the consent and approval of the government, if any, for construction, operation and maintenance, and to the said bonded indebtedness, which the government shall thereupon assume and pay, according to the terms of the said bonds or other securities and of the mortgage securing the same.

19. In the event of the government exercising the said right to take over the undertaking, assets, property and franchises of the company as aforesaid, the provisions contained in the following clauses, numbers 20 to 24, shall take effect and come into operation from and after the date of such acquisition.

20. For the purpose of the sinking fund for the redemption of the bonded indebtedness, a like sum as is in and by clause 16 hereof provided to be paid for such purposes by the company to the government shall be annually set aside by the government out of the net income of the undertaking, that is to say, after payment out of the income of the expenses of operation and other charges for maintenance, repairs and for renewals or improvements upon and additions to the said undertaking and any part or parts thereof, and of the interest upon the bonded indebtedness and of interest calculated at the rate of three per cent per annum on all moneys paid by the government, in accordance with the provisions of clause 18, for the acquisition of the undertaking, and of interest at the same rate on any other liability or expenditure incurred or made by the government in connection with the undertaking.

21. The government will, subject to the provision next hereinafter contained, annually pay to the government of the province of Quebec and to the corporation of the city of Quebec, respectively, a proportion of the balance of the net income after providing for the said charges, interest and expenses and the amount to be set aside for the sinking fund as aforesaid, such proportion being based upon the amount paid or contributed as a subsidy by each of the three parties, namely: the Dominion government, $374,353; the government of the province of Quebec, $250,000, and the city of Quebec, $300,000; not exceeding, however, as regards the government of the province of Quebec and the city of Quebec, respectively, the sum of $7,500 and $9,000, being the amount of interest calculated at the rate of three per centum per annum on the said sum of $250,000 and $300,000.

22. If in any year or years subsequent to the acquisition of the undertaking by the government the income of the undertaking shall be insufficient to meet the charges and expenses and the provision for the sinking fund, more particularly set forth in clause 20 hereof, the net income of any subsequent year or years, after providing for the said charges, interest and expenses and the amount to be set aside for the sinking fund, shall be applied in reduction or payment of the amount of such deficiency before any such division of the net income and payment of part thereof to the government of the province of Quebec and the city of Quebec, res-

pectively, as provided for by the last preceding clause, is made.

23. If at any time, and with or without notice, the government shall pay or cause to be paid to the government of the province of Quebec and the city of Quebec, or either of them, the amount of their respective subsidies of $250,000, and $300,000, all payments, whether in respect of capital or income, to be made under the foregoing provisions to the said government of the province of Quebec or the city of Quebec, -respectively, shall as and from that time absolii-tely cease and determine.

24. Notwithstanding anything contained in the five next preceding olauses, the undertairing, assets, property and franchises of the company shall at all times be and remain the absolute property of the government, and the sole right of control and management shall be and continue absolutely vested in the government.

25. This agreement shall not come into force or effect unless and until it has been approved, ratified and confirmed by the parliament oi Canada.

In testimony whereof, the said parties have hereunto set their hands and seals the day anil 5 ear first herein written.

(.Sgd.) W. S. FIELDING.

(Sgd.) S. N. PARENT.

Signed, sealed and delivered in the presence of O. E. Tasehereau.

Before the Orders of the Day are called, I was going to give to the House a telegram I received yesterday from Mr. Sifton in respect to the award of the Alaska Boundary Convention. I may say that subsequently during the day His Excellency received from the Colonial Office a similar telegram. It reads as follows :

London, October 20, 1903.

Laurier.

Ottawa.

Award signed to day by chief justice and Commissioners Root, Lodge and Turner, being under treaty binding majority. Line commences at Cape Muzorr, goes directly to southern entrance of channel between Wales and Sitklan Islands, proceeding northward between said islands, to Portland channel; thence along the middle of Portland channel to its head; from there line formed by going from peak to peak of mountains, distance from tidal water varying from ten to thirty miles, speaking generally. When opposite Thomas Bay, line stops undefined from there to point about fifteen miles north of head of Taku inlet; thence follows peaks of mountains about north-westward to White Pass, follows summits of White and Chilcoot Passes, thence by peaks of mountains to Mount Fairweath'w. passes close to police post situated near Klehini river. On this course, the line will be from eight to twenty miles north of the provisional boundary line; from Fairweather a short distance northward and then on a fairly direct course to the rear of Yakutat Bay, thence from peak to peak by somewhat circuitous route to Mount St. Elias. Marked map follows to-morrow.

(Sgd.) SIFTON.

This telegram would not give so much information as to the character of the boundary which is thus settled by the award of ' 455

the boundary. But I have here two maps which may perhaps interest the House, and which give the boundary, one showing accurately the section of Portland Channel and the other the general outline of the boundary decided. These maps I lay on the Table of the House.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN (Halifax).

I presume that there are some documents in connection with the Alaskan boundary which cau be brought down at once, and there are some others with respect to which there may be some difficulty of that nature. I would suggest to; my right lion, friend that those about which there is no difficulty should be brought down at once, and that the others should be brought down as soon as possible.

I imagine there can be no difficulty in bringing down this forenoon, perhaps, a certain number ofi the documents.

Before the Orders of the Day are called, there is another matter I would like to bring to your attention, and that is a question which has been raised during the last two or three days as to the use by members of certain rooms and corridors of this House. I would like to say that I think it is desirable, even at this late stage of the session, to have a statement made as to the uses to which the different rooms of this House are applied. It is a question which has some interest to myself on account of the extremely inadequate accommodation which is afforded for the work I am compelled to do from time to time. I have been under the impression that we could use the corridors, but judging from events that have taken place recently there appears to be some rule which prohibits using even the corridors opposite the small apartments! in .which we are allowed to carry on our work. I think it is extremely desirable that we should know exactly to what uses the rooms are put, and what authority you propose to exercise over members of the House in respect to documents brought into this House ; because as late as this morning I understand that certain parcels brought to this House for the purpose of -being piled up in room No. 0, to the great inconvenience of members there, and for the reason that there was no other place to put them, have been ordered away by your authority from the precincts of the House. Under these conditions I think it is extremely desirable that we should know a little of the use to which the different rooms in the House are put, and of the rights which we have as members of this parliament to use those rooms. I have seen during the past session and during the present session a room downstairs opposite the telephone room, which does not seem to be occupied by any person, except that members on the other side of the House have used it during the past session for the distribution of literature, 1

know that because I have seen them doing it myself. I know something about the use which has been made of other apartments in this House for that purpose. While that has been going on, bags containing a certain amount of speeches and other documents which were required to be sent out by members on this side of the House for the purpose of affording desirable information to the public have been piled up in the corridors, not in corridors opposite rooms used by hon. gentlemen 011 the other side of the House, but an the corridors opposite rooms more particularly used by gentlemen on this side of the House, opposite my own room, opposite the room of my hon. friend from Heeds and Grenville (Mr. Taylor), the whip of the Liberal-Conservative party, opposite room No. 6. Now, no objection has been taken to this for many weeks, and I was not aware that any hon. gentleman in this House had been inconvenienced by that; and if it had been suggested in the House that any gentleman on the other side of the House objected to it or was inconvenienced by it, I am sure I would have been very glad to pile a portion of those bags up in my own room, small as it is, littered up as it is, for the purpose of removing that inconvenience. I am sure that would have been done by my hon. friend from Leeds and Grenville, who is also cooped up in a very small room, absolutely insufficient for his purpose. I am sure that every hon. gentleman on this side of the House would have been willing that the small apartment which we occupy known as No. 6 should also have been piled up by these bags rather than that any hon. gentleman on the other side, and particularly the Postmaster General, should have been inconvenienced in any way by these bags being placed in the corridors.

That is one thing, but it is another thing for the Speaker of this House or for any minister of the Crown to undertake to order away from the precincts of this House bags which are sent here to the address of a member of this House ; and I for my part wish to say that I cannot, until I am better advised, recognize your authority Sir, or the authority of any man sitting in that Chair-because my remarks are not at all personal to yourself-(he authority of any man occupying your chair, to take a course of that kind with regard to documents sent to a member of this House in the House of Commons. I recognize fully your right to see that good order is kept in the corridors, and I have already said that if you or any other gentleman in this House objects to the corridors being used for that purpose, these bags can be piled in my own room, or in a small number of apartments that are allotted to members on this side of the House. But I want to know at the same time something about the uses to which other rooms in this House are applied at present, and which so far as I am concerned * Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

do not seem to be occupied for any useful purpose, and might be occupied for that very purpose. It is not dignified for any Minister of the Crown to undertake to place difficulties in the way of sending out literature from this side of the House to people in this country ; it is not a very dignified part for even a private member to undertake to play, and I am glad to say that no private member of this House, so far as I am aware, or at least very few, have raised any question about this ; and it has been reserved for a minister of the Crown, who, it is said, aspires to the leadership of the great Liberal party of this country, to raise a question about so petty a matter as that. I do not know where that hon. gentleman is at present. I do not see him in his seat. We have a great many apartments in the Commons which are reserved for the use of members of the House of Commons, and if there is to be difficulty about matters of this kind, I think it will be desirable for us to ascertain whether these apartments are at the present time used for the wisest purpose. There are sleeping apartments provided for certain officials of the House of parliament, and if we are so crowded that it is impossible to give members on this side of the House an opportunity to arrange literature for distribution throughout the country, literature which is sent out by both political parties, then I think it may be desirable to inquire whether we could not better carry on the affairs of the country by using these apartments, which are practically dwellings at the present time, for some other purpose than that to which they are now put.

I have not been inclined to complain about my own inadequate accommodation. I have been content to do as I have done over and over again, go out into the corridor to hold conferences with gentlemen, by reason of the fact that my office was so small and was so littered up. I have had to sit in my office and have my secretary neglect his work because, when I desired to have private conferences, he had to go out and cool his heels in the corridors perhaps for an hour or even an hour and a half at a time, to the great neglect of his work which was going on. I have not said anything about this, I have been content to endure it; but if we are to have a tempest in a teapot created by the Postmaster General because certain bags have been piled up in these corridors opposite my own room and opposite the room of the Liberal-Conservative whip, I think it is high time that we should have from you Sir, and I would like to have it to-day, a statement of the use to which every room in this House is applied at the present time, and a consideration as to whether it is not possible to give to gentlemen in this House who have important duties to transact, a little more accommodation than they have at present.

We have had bags stored in these corridors all ready for mailing since the 25th of September, and the post office service of this country has been unable to take charge of them or to deal with them. I want to point out that the blocking up of the corridors, if they have been blocked up, is largely due to the fact that the post office service has not been able to take care of these bags which have been prepared for the mails. I assume that the post office has not been able to do so. My hon. friend from North Victoria (Mr. Hughes) suggests that it is not on account of inability but on account of unwillingness. I do not doubt that, but I make no suggestion of that kind. This is now the 21st of October and there are bags which have been ready for mailing since the 25th of September as I am informed by those who have charge of those bags. There has not been any very enormous quantity. I will venture to say that the speeches of my right hon. friend the leader of the government (Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier) and of the Minister of Finance (Hon. Mr. Fielding) in regard to the transcontinental question have been sent out to the people in greater quantities than the documents which are to be sent out from the bags piled up in the corridors of this House. It is very well known that a very large number of the speeches to which I have referred have been, sent out.

Another question to which I would like, to have an answer from the government *is this : Is the government prepared to

say that rooms or places in departmental buildings or in buildings hired and paid for by this country have not been made use of during the present session or during past sessions for the purpose of distributing literature for the government campaign. The right hon. gentleman may be prepared or he may not be prepared to make a statement in regard to that. All I have to say is that if he will grant an inquiry into the subject I venture to think that I will be able to bring to his attention certain facts in regard to it that he may not be aware of at the present time and I think if there is any question of abuse of privileges an inquiry such as I have suggested would lead the right hon. gentleman to the conclusion that there are very much greater irregularities in con-nectioin with these matters than any irregularity which might be occasioned by the piling of certain bags in the corridors of this House. I thought it right to bring this matter to your attention, Mr. Speaker, because, without any desire to be disrespectful or to pass beyond the bounds of the most absolute courtesy towards yourself, it seems to me that it is beyond your jurisdiction and beyond your power, occupying even the high position which you do occupy, to direct that parcels addressed by hon. gentlemen in this House of Commons shall be removed from the premises or the grounds of parliament and shall not be delivered to the persons for whom they are intended. I have stated to 455J

you what I have heard in regard to that and what has been my information. I do not know whether this information be correct or not, but. I thought it right to bring it to your attention. I trust I have been misinformed in regard to it. But, in saying what I have in regard to this matter, I of course recognize your right as Speaker of the House to preserve order in the House and in the corridors thereof. I would like to know also how it is that the documents to which I have referred are delayed so long in the corridors. They have been there for weeks ready for mailing and if they have not been mailed, I would like to know what disposition is at present made of the rooms which are at present available for the use of members of the House of Commons and to inquire whether there is not some room which might be available in view of the fact that in the lower part of this building there are rooms which are not used for any purpose in connection with the business of this House. Therefore, as I presume that my remarks have exceeded the measure which would be permitted to me in speaking merely on the Orders of the Day, I will conclude my remarks by moving that the House do now adjourn.

My hon. friend (Mr. Borden, Halifax) has brought up a motion which, I think, is very small in itself and he has spoken on it in a most unfortunate manner and in a manner which I think is unworthy of himself. The members of this House have to submit to some inconveniences. It is a pity but I do not see that this condition can be remedied. It is unfortunate that every member has not room enough in which to transact his business. It is to be regretted that the leader of the opposition has very small quarters. I can sympathize with my hon. friend in this respect. I occupied those quarters before he did but I never complained that they were too small. These rooms were occupied at one time by a man who is at least the equal of my hon. friend or of any of us-Mr. Blake, and Mr. Blake never made the smallest complaint about them. I know the quarters are very small and I know that they are inconvenient because I occupied them for a very long time. But, I occupy quarters today that are not very much larger in space. However, I think there are some things that could receive the attention of the House rather than such matters as these. Have an investigation. It is a small proposition on the part of my hon. friend to call upon the government to have an investigation as to how some of the rooms downstairs are occupied.

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I beg my hon. friend's pardon. I did not ask for any investigation in regard to that matter. I said that great irregularities might be proved in respect to the departmental buildings upon an investigation being held.

I will accept the correction. It is not much larger than the statement I have made. I think our time is too precious at this stage of the session to think of having an inquiry of that kind. If, at the opening of next session it is thought advisable to have a proper distribution of the rooms of the House I am sure my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works (Hon. Mr. Sutherland) and his honour the Speaker who have charge of that matter will he only too glad to look into the matter and give as much room as possible to every member of this House. But all this trouble has arisen because of a condition of things which was brought to the attention of the House a few days ago. True it is for many years past, so long as parliament has been a parliament, members have distributed the literature of then-own party and so long as parliament will be a parliament they will continue to do so, but this procedure which has been normal for some years, has taken on proportions which involve an abuse if not a violation of the law. The whole trouble has come from the fact that a certain publisher in the city of Montreal to whom the privileges of the post office are extended and who gets certain bags for the distribution of his papers, instead of using the bags for the distribution of his papers, has used them to distribute the literature of the Conservative party. Since my hon. friend has brought this matter to the attention of the House let us see what the facts are. In order that the members of the opposition might distribute their literature not at their own cost but at the cost of the country they get this publisher in Montreal to send the literature which had been prepared by the Conservative party probably in this House and printed in'the city of Montreal, in the office of a certain newspaper, to the party whip, here, not to the parties for which it was intended them to be distributed by the party whip to parties outside. So, His Majesty's mails, instead of being abused once, have been abused twice. This literature was pre- i pared. I suppose, in Ottawa, printed in Montreal, sent back to the House of Commons in Ottawa and from the House of Commons scattered all over the country. This is an abuse of the privileges of this House; it is an abuse of the postal service. The publisher of that paper was within bis right when he used the bags to circulate his own newspaper, but when he used those bags to distribute the literature of the Conservative party, thereby incommoding everybody in this House, and other newspapers throughout Canada, it was an improper use of the mail bags. I understand that in order to have free circulation through the corridors, instructions have had to be given to dispose of these bags so that members may not tumble over them. If that is all that has been done. I am at a loss to know in what way, Sir, you have infringed on the

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

rules of the House. I am at a loss to know what there was to justify my hon. friend (Mr. Borden) in using the serio-comic language in which he brought this matter to the attention of the House.

Mr. A. C. BELL (Pictou).

I am surprised that the right hon. gentleman should have chosen to use such strong language In expressing his opinion of the address of our leader, which to my mind was characterized by the greatest of moderation. The leader of the opposition used not one offensive word, when he got up in the House to assert his rights, and the rights of his followers. The right hon. gentleman has chosen to treat the matter as of extreme insignificance, and as being unworthy to be made the subject of a motion to adjourn. The Prime Minister apparently thinks that it is the business of the opposition to accept with complacency, if not with gratitude, any kind of treatment that may be meted out to them by the officers of the House, and by departmental officers, acting, I presume, under instructions. To my mind it was a very small piece of business on the part of some members of the cabinet which the right hon. gentleman leads. The right hon. gentleman has stated that some very eminent men-of whom he is not the least by any means-have used the [DOT]narrow quarters in which the leader of the opposition now has to transact his business. But the leader of the opposition did not object to being confined to these narrow quarters, although he was compelled to draw attention to the inconvenience to which lie is subjected, when he found that very rigid and strict regulation was placed upon certain portions of this building by the gentleman who directs the management of this House. The leader of the opposition lias borne the inconvenience he suffers without complaint. Now, Sir, let me point out, that we do not enjoy the franking privilege as a privilege at all, nor do we receive it as a favour from the government or from any member supporting the government. It is our right to frank letters, and we are going to insist upon exercising that right to the full. That right lias been curtailed by the action of the hon. gentleman who fills the position of Postmaster General, and who to my mind, fills it very inefficiently. Here is a gentleman who, with all the resources of his department, and with unlimited facilities for purchasing material and employing assistants, is unable to pass through the Ottawa post office more that forty or fifty bags of mail in the course of a day. We on this side of the House have had no difficulty in procuring three or four boys, who, without previous training, have been able to handle a hundred of these bags in a day, and yet the Postmaster General, the Minister of Labour, is so Inefficient, that his whole department Is unable to handle forty or fifty bags of this

mail matter in the same time. Would we not be an extraordinary opposition if we were to submit quietly to such treatment V Even if the corridors have to be occupied to a certain extent, they have not at all been crowded to such an extent, as to prevent even so big a man as the Postmaster General from making his way along without any inconvenience. It has grown to be an outrage, that these bags of mail matter have had to remain thei-e for over a month, without being despatched through the mails of this country. If the Postmaster General cannot manage the business of his department any better than he has done in this case, I would submit to the Prime Minister that he should look around for another Postmaster General, and I have no doubt that he will find oixe who can handle without the slightest tx-ouble, all the mail matter that is despatched by members of the House of Commons. I presume that one single newspaper in Montreal, the ' Star,' for instance, has handled within the past week two or three thousand bags of mail, similar to those that are now lying in the corridors. One single and private institution is able to do that in the course of its ordinary business, and yet, the Postmaster General, at headquarters in Ottawa, where the work is done under his very eyes, is not able to get this mail despatchel with promti-tude. It is most disgraceful to the Postmaster General, that I am in a position to be able to get up hei'e. and charge him to his face with beiixg so inefficient, that this mail matter which has been stamped and prepared and addressed by the members of the opposition, has had to lie liei'e for weeks without being transmitted. It is an extraordinary thing that the Postmaster General has not been able to transmit these mails fx'om Ottawa, and has not been able to procure a sufficient supply of mail bags to accommodate the newspaper press of the city of Montreal. It is an absui'd situation, which no man in the possession of his senses would have ci'eated for himself. I say that the Postmaster General is a very indiscreet man, so far as his reputation is concerned, when he seeks to immortalize himself by telling the country, that his department is unable to handle this very moderate amount of mail matter. If the Postmaster Genei'al devoted himself to the woi'k of facilitating the transmission of these mails, not one of these bags would be lying in the corridors to-day.

A man of very moderate abilities could handle the 1,700 or 1,800 bags that have come here in the course of a month-for that is the full amount, say 00 a day-and there are now 700 of these bags not delivered. We had an opinion that the purpose of the mails was to receive from the public and to deliver to its destination matter that was regularly and properly placed in the hands of the post office. Apparently that is not the purpose of the mails; in some cases, the

purpose is to delay and prevent the delivery of matter placed in the hands of the post office. The post office is a government monopoly, they have the exclusive right to transmit matter that comes regularly into the mails; we have no other person to whom to go if we want to distribute this matter, and therefore we have a right, as citizens of this country, as well as members of parliament, to demand that any matter that we put into the hands of the Postmaster General or any officer of his department should be dealt with promptly and satisfactorily to us-not to him, but to us. We perfectly understand his opinion on this subject; we know his rights and ours ; we know his duties and are going to insist that he shall perform these duties. When lie or any other man undertakes to deprive members of this House of their rights, then he must expect them to insist upon having their rights and nothing less. The whole matter is unworthy. I was not altogether surprised, from the course of the hon. gentleman who is now Postmaster General when in opposition, to find him acting in such a petty, silly, ridiculous spirit as he is doing, but' I was much surprised to-day, I was never more surprised in my life, than to find that the Prime Minister of Canada was disposed to sustain that indiscreet and foolish Postmaster General in the undertaking upon which he has entered. If the Postmaster General chooses to make it patent to all Canada and to a great part of the world outside of Canada, that he is unable to handle 1,800 bags filled with 300 or 400 pieces each of mail matter of the easiest kind, resembling newspapers in character- if he is disposed to send out information that he is not able to organize his department so as to handle that amount of mail matter in thirty days, lie lias a perfect right to do it, and I congratulate him upon the result. I think he will go down to posterity not only as the mail who devised the postage stamps and the motto of the vaster empire than has been, but will be looked upon as the vastest failure that has been as Postmaster General. That is the situation he has created for himself, that is the pillory on which he will be put and will be kept as long as he occupies a seat in this House. He has taken all this trouble out of a small desire to annoy and obstruct the proper conduct of the opposition in using their franking privilege. If the hon. gentleman wants to do that sort of thing he will get enough of it, and he may fry in it and he will fry. I want to know why it is that because the Postmaster Genei'al is either unable or unwilling to allow his officers in Ottawa to receive matter from us at a very moderate rate, to the extent of some 30,000 pieces a day, and chooses to create a glut in this building by refusing to take the matter, officials of this House should come to members of the opposition and instruct them that they are not to be

allowed to use tlie corridors to store this mail matter. It is not the fault of the opposition that that matter is in the corridors. It is the fault of the Postmaster General. We have a post office in this House of Commons, established and maintained for the use of members, aud it must be of such character and extent that it will discharge the business tendered to it by the members of this House. It must be large enough to receive every particle of mail which we may tender. If it cannot do this it is the business of the Postmaster General to find other accommodation; if he cannot find it anywhere else, he is responsible for "the fact that this mail matter is lying in the corridors, and he it is who should be censured by the Speaker or the officers of the Speaker for having it there, not we. We are not at all anxious to have it about the corridors; we are anxious to get it out and have used every means in our power to get it out, but we have been unable to do so because the department of the hon. Postmaster General is either unable or un-willilng to take' it. It 'is a situation which is simply intolerable, and I think it is as well that the right hon. gentleman should understand that the members of the opposition are not going to be lectured in the manner in which he talked this morning. The right hon. gentleman may have his own opinion about the gravity of this subject, an'd he may choose to regard it as a very small matter, but we want him to understand that an invasion of the privilege of any British subject is a thing that will not be permitted. The invasion of the rights of the House of Commons, of the men who are sent here to discharge the business of the country, or the obstruction of these gentlemen in the discharge of anything that is their right and duty is something which we are not disposed to stand, and we will not be willing to allow this House to adjourn until this, matter is satisfactorily settled. We want to have a distinct and clear understanding as to what our rights are ; we want to get every jot and tittle of our rights, and we do not want it as a favour from any man. We simply say that we have a right to the franking privilege and we want to be permitted to use it. If the Postmaster General cannot manage the mail service of this country so as to be able to handle this matter, we will want the right hon. the Premier to get another Postmaster General, because it is his business as Premier to have the work of that department carried out in a satisfactory manner, and he is responsible if the gentleman occupying that position under him is not able to discharge the duties of that department. I might call the attention of my right hon. friend to this further fact : This is not a question merely for to-day or for this opposition ; it is a question for all time in Canada and for all oppositions that may sit in this House for all time. If we have these Mr. BELL.

rights we must exercise them. If when the right hon. gentleman was in opposition he had been refused this privilege I have too much respect for him to believe that he would not have protested. We have our rights and we do not want to be hindered in these rights; we are now asserting these rights as much for the men who will follow us as for ourselves, because we realize that the object of the Postmaster General is to cause us petty annoyance, and that his efforts must fail in causing us anything more than a mere temporary -inconvenience. But it is a question of privilege and of right, and we are speaking for the men who may sit here at any time as an opposition. We have our rights and are determined to assert them, not only for ourselves but for the men who in time to come may exercise these rights.

I regret not having been in the chamber at the commencement of this discussion, and perhaps owing to my absence I may not deal with some points, if any have been made, which I did not hear. However, I have had the honour of listening to the bon. member for Pictou (Mr. Bell), who has in this instance departed from his usual course of addressing the House with a certain measure of moderation and dignity. I on this occasion regret to find that lie has departed from that role, and has, as all gentlemen do who are trying to uphold a bad case, indulged in rather violent and *abusive language. Without dwelling upon the personal attack which he makes upon me or discussing the question of whether or not the general administration of the Post Office Department is satisfactory to the public, leaving that question to be determined by the public itself, I will give to the House the bare facts of the case without endeavouring to evade or to cloud the issue. This is not a question of the franking privilege at all, although that subject may fairly come up for consideration in view of the events that have taken place. Let me tell you frankly and exactly how the matter came to my attention and how the situation has grown to what it is. On Saturday last I received a communication from a leading publisher of the city of Montreal-not the Montreal ' Star,' but another leading journal 'in that city-complaining that his house had not been furnished, according to the usual custom, with bags for carrying their papers to the post office. I might say that the department, in order to accommodate newspaper publishers, inaugurated the practice of allowing them to receive from the post office, from time to time, sufficient mail sacks in which to bag their papers for transmission to the post office.

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

Is that custom not for the purposes of accommodating, not the newspapers, but the post office author-

ities, by saving them the expense of sorting these mails ?

Probably there are mutual advantages. It is doubtless for mutual convenience, and may have the advantage suggested by the hon. member for Victoria (Mr. Hughes), but it also has the corresponding advantage of enabling the publishers to send their mails to the post office at the latest moment, and it is a great boon to newspaper publishers to have as much time as possible to get out their issue before the outgoing trains. If, however, as the hon. member for North Victoria suggests, this is no advantage to the newspapers, I do not understand what grievance the ' Star ' newspaper may have, if it does not enjoy that privilege to-day. But to return to the history of the situation. On Saturday last I received the communication to which I have alluded. I had no idea then that any difficulty of this kind would occur. My attention had been called to the accumulation of bags of this kind in the corridors, and in private conversation 1 expressed my opinion.

Mr. CLARKE.

Pretty vigorously.

Yes, but it was a private conversation with a leading gentleman on the other side, and the matter then absolutely escaped my attention until I received the communication to which I have alluded. In desirinig that this work should proceed rapidly, and that no ground for complaint should exist, either here or at Montreal, through the department failing to issue bags to the publishers in sufficient quantities, I at once inquired into the cause of the congestion. I learned that the Montreal ' Star ' had procured from the post office at Montreal an unusually large number of mail sacks, and had used them, not for the purpose for which they were issued, namely, the carryinig of the newspapers to the station, but to pack up this literature to be transmitted from the post office at Montreal to the Whip of the opposition at Ottawa, and we found bags full of mail matter accumulating at different places throughout the city. I at once caused an inquiry to be made at the post office in the House of Commons to ascertain why they had not been sending away this literature and getting these bags liberated. The answer I received was that the postmaster at Ottawa had refused to receive any more at the city post office. The course adopted for the transmission of the mails from the House is to send them to the city post office, where they are shipped by cars to the various stations and taken away for distribution throughout the country by the various postal cars that leave this ' city. When, therefore, I learnt that the city postmaster had refused to receive any more because he had no room, I deemed it my duty personally to inspect the post office,

and see what justification there was for that explanation. I there was given ocular proof of the correctness of the statement. I was pointed to masses of accumulated bags, which blocked up the inside space. And as a considerable amount of general mail matter passes through the post office in and out, and the postmaster deemed it his duty to see that the general mail service was1 not unduly interfered with, he refused to receive any more mail bags. The postmaster, or one of his officers took me to the basement, which covers all the ground floor, and he there showed me hundreds of bags full of campaign literature which had been dumped on them, and to remove which they had not sufficient postal cars.