March 28, 1904

CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

I think the hon. gentleman has forgotten that it is stated in the return that ' on the following roads the municipalities paid 6 per cent on the value of the road, say $4,000 a mile and keep up the roads.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

Joseph Raymond Fournier Préfontaine (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

That is exactly what I say.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

In Hochelaga they pay $262. 73. This arrangement may be made in such municipalities as Hochelaga and St. Louis de Mile-End, but where would the money come from to maintain the long roads outside the city ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

Joseph Raymond Fournier Préfontaine (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

The municipalities there -would do the same thing.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

But the municipality of St. Laurent would have eight or ten miles of road to keep in order for the people of Montreal but would receive no money from Montreal for the maintenance of the road. My hon. friend sees that that would be eminently unfair.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

Joseph Raymond Fournier Préfontaine (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

I wish to put a question to my hon. friend. Does the city of Montreal receive anything from those who pass on the roads, the taxes on which are commuted roads in such municipalities as Ste. Cunegonde, St. Henri, St. Louis de Mile-End and Maisonneuve ? They pay nothing.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

They pay taxes in the city of Montreal. But my hon. friend must see that there is no proportion between a municipality like Montreal with a valuation of $200,000,000 and St. Laurent with a valuation of $800,000. The idea is that, as everybody or. tiie island used the roads, there should be a system of contribution by which everybody would pay.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

Joseph Raymond Fournier Préfontaine (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

If my hon. friend will allow me, I think that the municipali-

ties that have acceded to this arrangement have a population of certainly three-quarters of the whole island of Montreal.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

But the arrangement does not work, for, as my hon. friend knows, it gives rise to a great deal of difficulty. I have received a letter dated 25th of March, from the corporation of Westmount by its secretary, which says, in part:

There are about two miles in length of the road of the trustees of the Montreal Turnpike Roads situated in Westmount on which the tolls were commuted some years ago, since which, time the trustees have done nothing to maintain the road though they object to sell it to the town alleging want of authority to alienate.

X do not wish to pursue this further ; but my bon. friend will see that, with the system he suggests, the poor people would pay for the rich, and the moment a piece of road is handed over to the municipality the trustees lose control of it. It is well enough in the municipalities in the neighbourhood of Montreal. But when you come to a long piece of road outside the city it is not reasonable to throw the maintenance exclusively on the municipality, as in Lachine and St. Laurent. The people of Montreal use these x'oads more than the farmers, and if you abolish toll-gates you -would have no revenue. The roads would have to be maintained by the municipality without any fund to draw upon for their maintenance. I would like to say one word to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding), who has asked me to abandon this resolution. He says that the Department of Finance and this government has no control whatever over that body called the Montreal Turnpike Trust. Does he remember that the Dominion names three trustees and that the policy of the body is, therefore, under the absolute control of the Minister of Finance ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I did not say we had no control, but I said our interest was only the interest of a creditor.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

I do not dispute that. But we have the legislation, giving the bondholders absolute control of the corporationnothing can be done without the consent of the bondholders. If you go to the government of Quebec, they will tell you : we have the minority in that body, and everything we may decide is subject to the higher decision of the Federal government. That is why I think it is in the power of this government to control not only the administration of the body itself, but that change in the direction of the abolition of toll-gates which was the object I had in view in moving this motion. I do not think it is reasonable for my hon. friend to ask me to recede from my motion under the circumstances. It would be admitting that the suggestions I have made are addressed to the wrong parties or that they are not worth urging, and I cannot do that.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

Joseph Raymond Fournier Préfontaine (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

It is not the negotiation^, am suggesting. I do not see how I can " draw the motion.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Is it in order, Speaker, for the hon. Minister or 1 p0lcel>

to move that motion, having already once or twice ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I have spoken o0^ original motion, but I could not hav on the amendment, for it is 00 y moved.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

We need not oJS,sr,

you for a decision of the point, M1'- Jve t& some other hon. gentleman can n amendment. jaji

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Hon. L. P. BRODEUR (Minister °f Revenue).

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   MONTREAL TURNPIKE TRUST-MOTION FOR ABOLITION.
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March 28, 1904