Rt. Hon. Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT (Minister of Trade and Commerce) :
[DOT]lust a casual thought of his to send for this information-
I sent the geographer
That is, from the 733rd road mile, post.
the survey line turns south eastward by the
Metagami and other rivers to North Bay.
There is where the survey has been coining to and the only survey that has been made. They have surveyed from Winnipeg to White Earth Lake, 300 miles; the location survey-probably most of it bad already been done in the surveys for the Canadian Pacific Railway years ago, and then they have made some preliminary survey for part of the distance to where they want to diverge to North Bay. And that is the report that the Minister of the Interior reads to this House as a satisfactory report to be laid by tlie government before the House, upon which we are to determine so important a question as that now before us. Then the hon. minister goes on to speak of the increased guarantee as a matter of no importance-Mr. Toots would say it was ' of no consequence.' It was given to create confidence in the Grand Trunk shareholders, gentlemen who do not know as much as we do. It can make no difference apparently whether the guarantee is larger or smaller, for tlie road will pay its way ! And another gentleman adds, ' It will not cost us a dollar.' I shall have something to say later on about the question whether it will cost us a dollar or not. But I wish to read again, on page 799 tlie exact words of the Minister of the Interior I would like to give these words
Let us see where it comes from.
-consisting of agricultural material, dry goods, hoots and shoes and all class of merchandise that a new and rapidly developing country requires.
Where does the Grand Trunk get that class of traffic ? It is the cream of the business. It will get it in the province of Quebec, in the cities of the maritime provinces, in the province of Ontario and through the old settled districts. Oars that icome down loaded with wheat will go through these old settled districts and they will go back loaded with this merchandise. The Grand Trunk will not send that traffic 400 miles to the north. The oars will return by the route they have come by and the traffic will be by way of North Bay or the lake route. Mr. Hays knew what he was speaking of. He knew that these men, were aware that through the older provinces they reaped all their earnings and he was pointing out that the life of the new line, the line from North Bay to Winlipeg and onward, will be the return west-iound traffic that it will get to enable them ;o haul wheat cheaply to the east. But some ion. gentlemen ask : What have we to do vith what passes at the Grand Trunk meet-ng ? Surely hon. gentlemen in this House ,vho do not profess to be experts would like :o get the opinion of an expert like Mr. Hays. When Mr. Hays points out where the traffic svill come from, that it will come from these old settled portions of the country, that it s here that he gets all the best rates 011 Merchandise, boots, dry goods and clothing, everything that is lU&nuf&cturGd in oui n and and that he is going to take that up to :he west filling the returning cars lie has brought down with wheat surely he knows what he is talking about. He was pomt-ino- out to the shareholders of the Grand
$45,000,000. The Pacific Company have the power to give the Grand Trunk Company or anybody else, the whole $45,000,000, and if the Grand Trunk Company do not take all they can get, I ami very much mistaken.
There is another little clause in the new Bill just introduced which is very significant. In the original charter passed less than a year ago, it was provided that this Pacific company, which was going to have such an important undertaking on its hands, should begin operations when it had subscribed $2,000,000 of stock, and when $200,000 of it was paid up. That was not very much for such a company. One would have thought that they would have been content; but they were not content. Section 6 of chapter 122 of 1903, is amended by striking out in the first line thereof the word ' two ' and substituting the word ' one ; ' so that the company will have to get subscribed only $1,000,000 of stock before they begin this undertaking and the amount to be paid up is reduced to $100,000. The $2,000,000 was so startling that they had to come to parliament and get the amount reduced to $1,000,000 ; and when 10 per cent is paid on that, they will have $100,000 with which to begin the undertaking. I wonder if they expect the country to subscribe the $1,-. 000,000 and pay up the $lo0,000.
Then, there is the question of the $20,000.000 of rolling stock.' If that were to be paid for out of the bonds or stock, it would form part of the $60,000,000 I have mentioned. But it is not. A trust company is to provide that roiling stock, and no doubt it will be rented to the railway company. I do not wonder that the Grand Trunk Company wanted to have a few alterations of such an unimportant character as these. The right hon. First Minister said they were of such trifling importance that he thought it was hardly worth while for us to discuss them. That $20,000,000 is now reduced to $f5,000,000. I do not make much of that. Of course, the government were not obliged to sign their guarantee until the $20,000,000 of rolling stock should be-not paid for or acquired, but supplied : and all the security they will now have for the last five millions of the rolling stock, is the covenant of the Grand Trunk Pacific Company. But what is the value of the Grand Trunk Pacific's covenant. The whole thing is in the hands of the Grand Trunk Company. You cannot call on anybody to pay up stock, because the stock is all ' paid up There is no liability of the Grand Trunk, and the covenant of the Grand Trunk Pacific Company is not worth anything. Yet this is all you have got for your extra $5,000,000. It is a small point, but it is worth nothing !
, We pointed out last year that the clause relating to the rolling stock simply called on the company to equip the road with a
Subtopic: WEIGHING OF BUTTER AND CHEESE.