Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

At the present moment we are simply defining what is an emergency, and I do not think my hon. friend will take exception to the definition. By section 77, to which my hon. friend has alluded, the Governor in Council is given certain powers in case of emergency. Perhaps those powers are too great or are not great enough. That is a question to be discussed when we reach section 77 ; but it seems to me that no exception can be taken by my hon. friend to the definition of emergency, which is the only thing before us at present.

.[DOT] Mr. R. L. BORDEN. I do not quite understand subsection (f) and there is some information which I shall require when we come to consider it again. When I mentioned my objection, I was referred to section 123, which deals, not with general orders, but with regulations ; and they seem to be two distinct things. Section 123 is relevant to subsection (h) but not to subsection (f). When we come to discuss (f) again, I would like a more definite answer to the question I asked a moment ago.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I asked that (f) be allowed to stand, for this reason, because it is understood, according to the views of my hon. friend, that we are to dispense with five services of the General Officer Commanding. The duties now performed by him are to be largely performed by an advisory commission. At present, a' general order means an order issued to the militia by the General Officer Commanding, with the approval of the Minister of Militia. That is to say, there are two authorities, the commanding officer and the minister.

I presume it is the intention of the minister to substitute somebody for the General Officer Commanding, because the regula-lations ought to be approved by somebody else before they are sanctioned by the minister himself. That is the reason I asked that this clause stand.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

They should be

made by somebody and approved by the minister. I would like some further information as to just what the minister means

(by the proposed change of system. I undlar-stood him to say that under the present sys-

tem the minister does not communicate with the subordinate officers directly; but some change is to be made in that regard. Is it to be a general change ? As I understand the present system, if the General Officer wants to communicate orders to the battalion or to subordinate officers, he does so through some person who is near in command to himself.

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

Through the adjutant-general.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

And the adjutant-general communicates with the district officer commanding, who in turn communicates with the commanding officer of the regiment. Is that the system which it is intended to change ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

No, that system will not be changed ; but instead of the General Officer Commanding, the proposed Militia Board will fix the policy, issue orders, and deal with all questions connected with the administration of the militia.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I understood that there were to be some omissions in the means by which the orders were to be communicated. Is it meant that the proposed council is to communicate, for example, directly with the commanding officer of a regiment ? I am not very clear as to what the change is, and I would like to understand it.

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I think the hon. leader of the opposition does not understand the situation referred to by the Minister of Militia. He did not refer to conditions such as those which have recently been before us, in which the Minister of Agriculture arrogated to himself, either of his own right or as acting Minister of Militia, to meddle with the formation of a regiment. I think the minister himself, if allowed to speak the truth would condemn that. But what the minister referred to was what, according to rumour, happened when General Hutton was here. The minister chose to speak to one of his departmental officers, but General Hutton refused to allow the officer to approach the minister except through him. I think the minister was justified in the course he took; but I think it is also courteous for him to notify the General Officer Commanding of any action he takes. I do not think the hon. leader of the opposition understood that.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I think I understood it, but I want to know what the system is to be-whether you are to keep up the old form of giving out instructions through a series of officers, or whether you are to have a different system ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

The Minister of Militia will keep the same relative control that he does at this moment.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Well, what change is to be made with regard to communicating instructions ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

The chief of the General Staff, who is the new officer, will have charge of what are called field operations-charge of preparing an army for the field. The Adjutant-General will have charge of certain branches, many of them the same as now-education, mobilization, &c. The Quartermaster-General will have charge of very much the same things as now-transportation and so on. And the Master-General of Ordnance will have charge of the ordnance, guns and.so on. Each one of these men will be supreme in his own department, subject of course to the decisions of the Militia Council, and these are the men who would compose the Militia Council.

HUGHEiS. The hon. minister does not understand what the leader of the opposition wants to know. Under the new system will it be possible for the Minister of Militia or the Minister of Agriculture, as acting in his place, to have officers appointed, the recommendations of whom does not come through the regular channel ? Will it be possible for the Minister of Agriculture or the Minister of Militia to interfere directly in the appointment of officers ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

As regards appointments, under the new system there will be a new method. According to the English- system, which I am very much inclined to approve of, that work is all done absolutely independent of headquarters, except that finally, I suppose, the Minister of Militia will have to approve. We cannot very well get around that. This Bill cannot go into force until proper regulations are carefully made, and I could not say at the moment what system will be adopted, but in a general way, greater powers will be given the districts than they have now.

Mr. INGRAM.

Who is to be the recognized General Officer Commanding 1

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

The Militia Council.

Mr. INGRAM.

In that case the order passed in October last applying to General Officers Commanding will be entirely wiped out ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

Certainly.

Mr. FOWLER.

Who will sign these appointments ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

The Militia Council will act very largely in the sphere within which the Commander in Chief now acts in England. The signing of the appointments is a matter of detail.