Mr. MACPHERSON.

He would deduct his board. At present he can deduct his board any way if the captain will pay him ; but he cannot enter into the business of boarding-house keeper, because, according to section 7, he cannot ship anybody. According to the Bill that we desire to have passed now it will be possible for a man to go into the boarding-house business and ship men without incurring any penalty. I recognize the fact that a danger may underlie any act that allows the shipping of men to go into the hands of irresponsible people, but I do not think there is any crime in the passing of a Bill like this. The American boarding-houses are carrying on their business within sixty miles of our ports. They are doing a large and remunerative business. Shippers want crews and they want to buy their supplies. We are obliged to tell them in British Columbia that they can load our timber, our fish, our coal, or any of our products, but we cannot supply them with anything else. They have to go to the American side to get their men and provisions. There is nn obvious necessity for the boat leaving our harbour, being towed down and paying double towage at the same time although that does not enter into the spirit of the affair at all. If we are discriminated against it is because the present Act is applied so strictly to us in British Columbia. My hon. friend (Mr. Borden) can see that quite easily. He, being a lawyer, can foresee all kinds of trouble that may result from the passing of the Bill, and he can anticipate all kinds of subterfuges that may be raised. He says that the law may bear heavily upon some people. It is bearing heavily on some people to-day if his argument is correct ; it is bearing heavily upon the shipper and the sailor and there is no Act that we can pass that will relieve the shipper or the sailor. But, we can drive away from our shores the legitimate trade we have to-day by continuing the Act which is at present in force.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Mr. COCHRANE.

I would like to ask the hon. gentleman how it is that if they have to go to the United States to get their crews, they are driven over there by the same Act to get their provisions ? If you sold your commodities as cheaply as they do on the other side they would get their supplies where they loaded their freight.

Mr. MACPHERSON.

I would like to tell my hon. friend that when the captain has got his boat loaded that boat is worth $300 or $400 a day and the boarding-house master in the port at once says : I will ship your crew, but I will only do it under certain conditions. The conditions are that you shall get your crew from me, that you will pav me so much and that you shall buy youi supplies from people I name.

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

Mr. BARKER.

Is it contemplated, that, under section 2 of this Rill, the Governor In Council may establish a tariff of fees, and that that tariff shall supersede the right to contract for any sum ?

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

It is intended to establish a rate of fees approved by the Governor in Council which shall not be exceeded. Except for that, of course, a man will be free to make his own agreement.

Mr. BARKER.

I would point out that the Bill repeals, as regards British Columbia section 18, which is the only clause in the' statute that protects the parties in respect of fees. That section provides that the shipping master or deputy shipping master who has charged more than the established fee shall be liable to a penalty and to dismissal.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

More than that, for my part, I cannot see why section 7 should be repealed. But sailors are notoriously improvident; they are notoriously

liable, as the hon. member for Vancouver (Mr. Macpherson) has stated, to spend their wages foolishly. And, if you provide that the deputies of the shipping master may be persons who are engaged in the business of selling spirituous liquors, you are passing legislation that in my opinion is unwise. These men have been referred to as wards of the nation because of their improvidence when ashore. They should be wards of parliament, and parliament should not pass legislation that would be likely to increase their tendency to improvidence.

Mr. MACPHERSON.

Then we have no wards of parliament in our part of the country-we have no sailors.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

That is to be regretted. But there may be some worse things than having no sailors. I am anxious to further the commerce and shipping of A ancouver ; but I am not anxious to place on the statute-book of Canada legislation of this character even for the object stated here to-day. You may appoint as deputies of the shiping master, not only men who are keepers of boarding-houses, but men who engage in the sale of spirituous liquors. ;

Mr. MACPHERSON.

It does not say so.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

It suspends section 7, and the effect of that is what I have stated. If that is not the object, then remove this repeal of section 7, and you will remove one very grave objection to the Bill so far as I am concerned.

Mr. MACPHERSON.

Well, allow the prohibition of liquor sellers to stand.

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

We want to have that feature of this Bill eliminated at least. So far as the other part of it is concerned, it seems to me that vVe are going at this in a wrong way. The hon. member for Vancouver has some personal knowledge of the circumstances. As I understand, the difficulty is due to the fact that there is no means of recovering in British Columbia the moneys due to the boarding-house keeper. Prom what the hon. gentleman says, as I understand him, a boarding-house keeper will keep a sailor for three or four weeks ; and, even when he does procure a berth for him on an outgoing ship-because we know boarding-house keepers, even if they are not deputy shipping masters, do this work by interviewing masters and so on-lie has no means of reimbursing himself for what the seaman owes him.

Mr. MACPHERSON.

It goes a little further than that.

Mr. R. E. BORDEN.

Well that is part of it at least. If this is the principal part of it, it does not seem to me that we are going at the matter exactly in the right way by this legislation.

Mr. MACPHERSON.

This is not drawn for the benefit of boarding-house masters,