July 16, 1908

LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

I can only give the information that was obtained in the application of each company. It is something in their favour that these subsidies were grant-el them before.

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

In many cases, these subsidies were asked for by companies that intended to build lines that would compete with existing lines. But, in the meantime, the charters may have been acquired by the very roads with which it was intended to compete. Can we be sure that we are not granting a renewal subsidy that will defeat the very object for which the subsidy was granted in the first place?

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

My hon. friend's question is very pertinent. It is not easy to learn all these details in the information we receive. We have a regular form for them to fill up, and, as for the rest, we can only use our best judgment. The point is one which would come up rather on the granting of a charter, though, of course, the charter might be granted to one person and afterwards acquired by another. So far as possible, we guarded the point the hon. gentleman has referred to, but, in some cases, it will happen in spite of any information that we have.

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LIB

Duncan Ross

Liberal

Mr. DUNCAN ROSS.

On one point, I do not find anything in these resolutions, but to be certain, I would like to ask if, in the Bill covering these resolutions, it is intended to repeal any of the subsidies not mentioned here as revotes. Some subsidies were revoted last year and do not expire for another year. They are not revoted by these resolutions, hut I take it that they are not repealed? *

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

It is not the intention to repeal any that now exist. You might allow a subsidy to lapse, but you could not very well repeal it, because it might have been financed in good faith.

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CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. URIAH WILSON.

Will the minister tell us, as we come to each case, when the charter was granted, and what reason he has for renewing the subsidy?

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

That would take all night. If the hon. gentleman will tell me what information he wants I will gladly give it.

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CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. URIAH WILSON.

The hon. minister must have some ground for revoting the sub-

sidy, and that he ought to state to the committee. The reason against this course is that it will take all night. This is another condemnation of the government for bringing these resolutions before the House at this late date. These resolutions should have been before the House three or four weeks ago at least, and then we could have read up the information and been ready to discuss the matter intelligently. Gentlemen about me here suggest that they should have been down months ago. Certainly, we cannot intelligently discuss them within the time allowed us.

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

Some of these charters have been granted by the provincial legislatures and it is difficult to get all the information.

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CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. URIAH WILSON.

I do not see that that makes any difference. No matter who gave the charter, the minister ought to be able to tell us why he is renewing the subsidy.

To the Kettle River Valley Railway Company, for a line of railway from a point at or near Grand Forks to a point fifty miles up the North Fork, and East or West Fork, of the North Fork Kettle river, in lieu of the subsidy granted by chapter 43 of 1906, section 1, item 39; not exceeding 50 miles.

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

This road was discussed a great deal in the House several years ago.

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CON
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

I understand that a portion twenty miles long is under construction. My British Columbia friends Inform me that this road will be a great advantage to the province.

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CON

Joseph Gédéon Horace Bergeron

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BERGERON.

How is it that they never asked for their subsidy?

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

This is a revote. They could start the work, but you must revote the subsidy to keep it in force.

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CON
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

In all, possibly two hundred miles.

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CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. URIAH WILSON.

And chartered in 1901, and only twenty miles commenced.

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

They are asking a subsidy for only fifty miles.

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CON

July 16, 1908