Mr. FOSTER.

What was the nature of

the compensation?

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Some twenty men were disabled last year in the discharge of their duty and I think every one will agree that they should receive compensation.

Department of Public Works - salaries, $324,800.

Hon. WM. PUGSLEY (Minister of Public Works).

The leader of the opposition asked that this item should stand until the classification of the staff was brought down. I went into the explanation quite fully when this appropriation was last under consideration by the House.

Mr. SPROULE.

The trouble is that perhaps not one member out of twenty may have read the statement submitted to the House.

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I supposed that hon. gentlemen would look at it. The reason for the large increase under civil government is that whereas formerly we had only 36 employees in the permanent inside service there were in the neighbourhood of 200 in the service in Ottawa who were paid from the outside service vote. The department was organized first when Sir Hector Langevin was minister and further under Mr. Hyman. Now under the provisions of the Civil Service Act instead of there being 36 in the inside service there will in future be 237. That accounts for the increase in this vote. If my hon. friend will turn to other items he will find there is a reduction corresponding to the increase under civil government.

Mr. SPROULE.

Is the reduction in one case equal to the increase in the other?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Yea, with the exception of some increases in salaries and in the staff.

Mr. SPROULE.

How much additional cost is incurred; by the transition of these 237 officials into the inside service?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

The memorandum I have is that the present salaries amount to $237,387 to be increased to $263,175, or an increase of $25,787 under the new organization. Then there is one additional clerk in the third division sub-division A provided for. Then there are the statutory increases for 1909-10 to 196 employees, $5,262.52. Then we make provision for additional appointments or any other changes necessary in the departmental staff, $5,000. The balance, covering the difference between the annual increases in salaries authorized by

the orders in council of 1908, and the portion of such annual increases actually paid to employees to be transferred to civil government during the fiscal year ending March 31, 1909, $8,958.81.

Mr. SPROULE.

Would not that be part of the statutory increases already provided?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

No, they were special increases by orders in council, and these are set forth in the orders in council which have been laid on the table. That makes a total of $25,728.98. In the memorandum from the Finance Department, on page 26, that amount is given just as I have given it here, as a footnote. The other increases are accounted for by the increases to those who were already members of the permanent staff. We have picked out all those who were in the inside temporary service and who have been brought, by virtue of the Civil Service Act, into the permanent staff, and we deduct their salaries from what had been hitherto provided for in these miscellaneous votes, and add them under the head of civil government.

Mr. SPROULE.

Where the civil servants have received an additional amount over what they were receiving heretofore, for the purpose of putting them in a certain class under the new Act, do they receive this year the statutory increase?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

They begin to earn their statutory increase, but do not get it until they have served a year.

Mr. SPROULE.

Did they get it last year?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Those who were in the outside service did not receive statutory increases. Their increases had to be by order in council.

Mr. SPROULE.

What has been done with that class who were induced to resign and go into the outside service for the purpose of getting in in a higher class at an increased salary?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

There was not one instance of that kind in my department.

Mr. SPROULE.

I am credibly informed there were some in the other departments.

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I can only answer for my own.

Mr. FOSTER.

The other night this point was raised. Take the order in council of May 5, 1908, which is in these words: ' That authority be granted for the continued employment of the undermentioned officers in one of the permanent branches of the Department of Public Works at the salaries hereinafter specified from July 1, 1908, to July 1, 1909.' The order in council is silent as to whether the salary set opposite the name of each one was the salary of the preceding year. As far as we can judge

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from anything said in the order in council, each one may have had $150 or $500 added to his salary. Were these the same salaries that these employees were being paid the preceding year?