Mr. DANIEL.

Mr. Speaker, it has always seemed somewhat strange to me that the regulations or laws or statutes with regard to the flying of the flag at sea should always be so intensely stringent, while with regard to the flying of flags on shore there seems to be no regulation whatever. Personally I do not know whether the regulations with regard to the flying of the flag at sea are statutory or merely admiralty regulations; but there the law, under whatever form it may be, is well known and well recognized. I listened with interest to the remarks of the Minister of Public Works. He and I both come from the same city, and what he has noticed in St. John, I have noticed also. There are a number of American citizens living there. Now, it appears to be characteristic of American citizens, no matter where they may be, to have an uncontrollable desire to fly their flag-to pin it on themselves -to put it on their autos, on their little yachts, or over the houses where they are staying. That is all very well in their own country; no one objects to that; but they do not appear to recognize that when they fly their flag in what is to them a foreign country, they are only doing it by the courtesy of the country in which for the time being they reside. The American citizens living in St. John appear to fly their flag almost .every day in the year. The Minister of Public Works stated that they fly the Union Jack over the stars and stripes. I think that on consideration he will withdraw that. Occasionally some of them fly the Union Jack on the same pole, but on different halyards, at the same level as the stars and stripes. But the majority of them do not do so at all. They are generally content with flying the stars and stripes alone. If it is important that this matter of flags should be attended to in the east, which is a much older settled country as far as Britishers are concerned, certainly,

I think we can all readily agree it is far more important that this flag business should be properly attended to in our great Northwest, which is filling up so rapidly with people of so many different nationalities who perhaps hardly know our flag when they see it. I think this resolution contains a most inaportant principle, one that I hope the Prime Minister and the government of this country will take to heart, so that some regulation will be put into force that will have the effect which the resolution anticipates. It has been said that the resolution would not give the government power to issue regulations that might be of use; but the government has the power to obtain a statute so that they may be empowered to make such regulations as they could legally and practically put into force. In the United States as we all know, it is almost as much as a man's life is worth, in some of the cities, to hoist the British flag. Apparently, it does not require any statute there to provide for the pulling down of that flag very quickly. If officials of the state or of the United States do not attend to the matter, the people soon take it into their own hands, and means are quickly taken by which that flag disappears from its flag-pole. I certainly support this resolution very heartily, and 1 hope that the government will bring in a Bill to authorize them to make necessary regulations, or that any other means required to carry out the idea of the resolution may be taken. I am quite certain it is high time that we took this matter up. It seems to be a simple thing on the face of it, but our young people are growing up, and_ strangers of all nationalities are coming into the country who have not been educated in regard to this matter and are content to see the foreign flag flying where their own flag should fly.

Mr. A. C. MACDONELL (South Toronto).

Like the rest of my colleagues, I was gratified at the encouragement this resolution met at the hands of the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Pugsley), but I think the House would have been better pleased if the minister had gone at least one step further. I think he should have stated that the government would take this matter into its own hands, and would introduce legislation to carry the resolution into effect. This is not the first occasion on which the flag matter has been brought up in this House. I do not desire to disparage the loyalty of the hon. gentlemen opposite, but I think it not unfair to point out, that on every occasion, the initiative with regard to the flag flying in Canada has come from the opposition side. It is not so many years since the flag did not float from this building in which we sit during the sittings of this House. I myself brought up the matter here, and complained of the omission; and Mr. DANIEL.

ever since that day the flag has been flying at least on this building every day on which the House sits. And so it has been, from time to time, on each occasion the matter has emanated from the opposition side of this House. But it may be that the proposal of legislation to carry this resolution into effect may not properly come from this side. I apprehend that it would be a matter requiring the expenditure of money, and if so, the legislation would have to originate with the Treasury Benches. But, regardless of that, such legislation should be introduced at the earliest moment by those who control the majority in this House. This is not a mere matter of sentiment, but, even if it were, the introduction of such legislation would be quite justified. Many visitors come here, notably from the United States. They are good people, they make excellent friends and neighbours, and we are glad to have them amongst us. But it does violence to the feelings of Canadians when these people arrive enveloped in their stars and stripes? If they come to make their home here for the summer, before they enter their summer houses, they surround themselves, their grounds, their houses and their boats with a great galaxy of American flags. One would think, going through certain parts of this country, that he was in the United States of America. This is all very well, but side by side with these flags, there should be some proper display of the national emblem to mark this country as British. Unfortunately, this display of foreign flags has led to a number of what are known as ' flag incidents '. On certain occasions, the wanton flaunting of American flags in the faces of British subjects has caused men to make the law for themselves, and flags have been taken down in a way that is unpleasant for all concerned. These incidents sometimes become international affairs, but serious trouble has heretofore been averted. Not only the people of our own country, but visitors also are ignorant as to the status of our flag. A visitor will hoist a foreign flag in a more or less insulting way, then a British citizen will threaten to take it down, but does not know his rights in the matter any more than does the man who raises the flag. So, I think the time has come when the government should consider this whole question, and embody our proper rights in a simple statute which should be accessible to everybody and easily understood. For breaches of this law there should be some proper penalty, some fine or some other not too severe sanction. Not only do I concur in the language of the resolution, but I think this whole matter of flag flying in this country should be surrounded by proper regulations, so that the people of this country and visitors to this country may know the rights of our flag, and also of any other flag floated here for

the time being. The Minister of Public Works has been good enough to extend the flag flying to border towns and seaports. Personally, I would like to see the regulation extended throughout the whole country. The expense would be comparatively small. As we are having so many foreigners coming to Canada, we want to let them know of what nationality this country is; we want to let them know that Canada is British, and let them know what the British emblem is. It would be a proper thing, and public opinion would back the government up in flying the flag on every public building. Especially this regulation should be extended, not only to seaports, but to the ports on our Great Lakes, some of which have a much larger quantity of shipping than many seaport towns.

Mr. PUGSLEY.

The ports to which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Macdonell) refers, I class as border cities-those that stand on the shores of boundary waters. The flag is flying op the public buildings of all such cities on Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Lake St. Clair and other boundary waters.

Mr. MACDONELL.

I congratulate the minister upon the extension of his ruling. And, now that he has gone so far and extended it to seaports, ports on boundary waters and border towns, the minister might as well throw in the tail with the hide and have the flag flying on all public buildings in Canada. Then the government might take up this resolution and bring down a Bill containing provision not only for flying the flag, but for the regulation of this whole flag matter.

Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Minister of Finance).

I am so much in sympathy with the general purpose of my iron, friend from London (Mr. Beattie), and with the sentiments expressed by him, that I regret to have to join the Minister of Public Works in advising him not to press his motion. I am thoroughly persuaded that the discussion to-night is a timely one, and will have a good effect, yet I feel that to press his motion in the terms in which the hon. gentleman has presented it to the House would not be wise. I am bound to say that I admire our American neighbours for the prominence they give to their flag in their own country, and I do not think any the less of them because, wThen they go abroad, they still exhibit their flag. Sometimes they may do it in a way that is not always pleasant to us, but after all, their main purpose is to declare themselves as citizens of the great republic, and we should not think any the less of them on that account. I regret that we in Canada do not make more use of our national flag. It is one of those things which we take for granted, that everybody is loyal in this country, and therefore there is no need for

us to assert our loyalty. In a country situated as ours is, lying alongside another great nation, I think it is very desirable that there should be, not only upon public buildings, but upon the private homes of our people, a very prominent display of the Union Jack. While I am most heartily in sympathy with my hon. friend in his motive in bringing this matter before us, still I must point out to him that when he asks us to make regulations such as he proposes, I think he will be advised by any lion, gentleman of the legal profession that we practically have no power to make any such regulations. We could, by an Act of this parliament, take the power. But before doing that, it would be well that we should have some regard to the practice of other countries. Flag incidents are always troublesome. Every man who has any pride of country is justly offended when an insult is offered to his flag, and he properly resents it. We feel that way ourselves, and on that account we should be all the more careful to see that we give no cause of offence to the citizens of a foreign country who want to make use of their flag in a proper way. If we had a regulation exactly in the terms of the hon. gentleman's motion it might lead us into trouble. These are international questions. An insult offered to the flag is something of -which the recognized authorities of every great nation must take notice. But I think in a matter of so much delicacy, warmly as we must sympathize with the good purpose the hon. gentleman has in view, we *would do well to pause and make inquiry as to what is the practice of other nations in this matter. I do not think we are called upon to rush into this matter and do something, even with a good puipose, which might lead us into difficulties with citizens of a foreign country. We have much to learn in regard to these matters from the mother country and from other nations, and while sympathizing strongly with my hon. friend's purpose, and with the sentiments he has expressed in supporting his motion, I think he should let the matter stand over in order that inquiry may be made as to the effect-not of this resolution, because it would have no effect-but if a measure were to be brought forward in the shape of an amendment to the criminal law, declaring what should be done in these cases when a citizen of a foreign nation shows his flag abroad, we might get ourselves into grave difficulties. Regarding flags on public buildings, the government may, as a right, determine whether a flag shall be shown, and on what day. But when you come to deal with the house of a private citizen, or with the motor car or boat of a private citizen, you may be treading on delicate and possibly dangerous ground. I would suggest to my hon. friend that he has

accomplished a good purpose already in having this discussion, and that it would be wise for him to withdraw his motion and leave the matter for the consideration of the government, with a view of inquiring as to what is done by other nations under similar circumstances. I would like my hon. friend to concur in that suggestion, because it is a matter on which it would be undesirable to have any division.

Mr. J. W. EDWARDS (Frontenac).

It is so seldom that 1 have an opportunity of agreeing with anything the Minister of Public Works says that it is a sufficient excuse for me, on this occasion, to rise and say that I do agree with him in the sentiments he has expressed here to-night in regard to the Union Jack being maintained in a prominent position as the flag of this country. I almost expected, before the Finance Minister took his seat, that, judging from the fears that were in his heart with regard to the trouble that might arise if we undertook to deal with this matter, he was going to suggest that a deputation be sent to Washington to talk the matter over with them before we came to a conclusion. Now, I believe there is an evil in this country pointed out by my hon. friend from London (Mr. Beattie), and that something ought to be done along the lines of his motion to impress upon the minds of American citizens that when they come over to this country they must not give undue prominence to the stars and stripes on their automobiles or on their residences in this country. If it be necessary to take those steps, even though they be offended, I say by all means let those steps be taken, and let them be offended thereat. In this country and in the country across the line the majority of people are able to read. The people of Canada are sufficiently well posted to know that if they go into the United States and flaunt their flag in the way that American citizens flaunt their flag in Canada, they would be showing disrespect to the people of that country. We respect them in their loyalty and their devotion to their flag, and we show our respect for them by respecting their flag. If they cannot show similar respect for us by respecting our flag, then it is high time that the government gave them to understand that they must respect it. Only last summer, in my county, a very unpleasant flag incident took place. We have in different parts of the county of Frontenac many American citizens, who come in to engage in fishing and to reside part of the summer, and in one part of the county you would think it was a portion of the United States, so many stars and stripes do you see floating, while the Union Jack is scarcely ever visible. When one of our citizens protested because the stars and stripes were flying from the top of a flag Mr. FIELDING.

pole without a Union Jack, he was insulted, and given to understand that he must mind his own business. I certainly think that a rule which applies to an individual should apply to a nation. A man must respect himself if he expects others to respect him. That is true of the individual, and that is also true of the nation. If we do not as a nation respect ourselves we cannot expect to enjoy the respect of other nations. I believe that our American cousins across the line, and the people of other foreign nations that come into Canada from all parts of the world, would have a much higher regard for Canada if we showed them that the British flag must be placed in the most prominent position, and that whatever other flag is shown, the Union Jack must have a position of superiority. That is no more than we should insist upon. Now, I do not see why the resolution of my hon. friend from London should not pass. He asks that regulations should be made by the government to secure respect for our national flag, and if it be necessary to enact a statute, then he asks the government to enact that statute. I think if the government were to propose a law on the lines of the motion of my hon. friend from London there would be no delay at all in passing it; if they brought in a Bill to-morrow or the next day, I think it would go through its first, second and third readings with the unanimous consent of this side of the House.

Reference has been made to the flying of the flag on the school-houses of Manitoba. Some twenty years ago I was the principal of one of the public schools in that province. I started a movement in the school over which I presided, had a flag pole erected and the flag flown, and I think I am right in saying that that school was the first school in Manitoba to have the Union Jack flying over it. It was at Souris, Manitoba. I hope something will be done along the line of the resolution moved by my hon. friend from London. I think it is high time that something should be done. Our beautiful summer resorts are every season attracting not only Americans, but people from England, Scotland, France, Germany and other lands. What must they think, in going through the beautiful lakes of Muskoka and the Thousand Islands to find a hundred American flags for one Union Jack? I feel very strongly that something should be done to regulate this and to show to the people of this country as well as to the people of the world that this is British territory, and that we intend to keep it such.

Mr. WALLACE.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to-say only a few words upon this subject. I entirely agree with the proposed resolution of my hon. friend from London (Mr. Beattie), and I see no reason whatever why

the government should not accept it. There must be a law in this country, or we can make a law, to stop Americans, or the people of any other nation from coming into Canada and flying foreign flags. It is no insult to any person who comes into Canada from the outside to say to him that he must give prominence to the flag of the country in which he happens to be. I would advise my hon. friend from London very strongly not to withdraw this resolution. I think it is right and I see no reason whatever why the government should not adopt it. The Union Jack is good enough to fly in Canada, or anv other place, and it is only proper that we should give due prominence to the flag of our country. I wish to emphasize my view upon this question, and to ask my hon. friend not to withdraw his resolution.

Mr. SPEAKER.

Is the House ready for the question?

Mr. FIELDING.

Does my hon. friend (Mr. Beattie) wish to withdraw the motion, or does he wish to speak? He would shut out debate.

Mr. BEATTIE.

I would like to make a few remarks.

Mr. FIELDING.

My hon. friend would shut out others; that is all.

Mr. E. M. MACDONALD (Pictou).

Mr. Speaker, the resolution proposed by my hon. friend from London (Mr. Beattie) assorts the proposition that some regulation should be issued by the federal government providing for some penalty, I suppose, where a foreign flag is exhibited in Canada above the Union Jack. I am sure that the proposition that due regard and pre-eminence should always be given to the flag of our country, whether in the presence of the flag of another country or not, is one that every member of this House and every good thinking person in Canada agrees with. It will be noticed that my hon. friend does not propose, in his resolution, anv extension of the regulation which my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Pugsley) issued with regard to the use of the British flag on public buildings. I apprehend that my hon. friend, therefore, and the other hon. gentlemen who spoke with him on this subject, agree that the government have acted wisely in that matter. Let me say that for myself I have always regarded it as one of the most singular things in Canada that we have never had very much of an open exhibition of natriotic feeling by the display of flags, or by patriotic national music such as is seen in other countries. I think it is one of the great regrets in Canada that this custom has not obtained. Apparently our forefathers, and even the people of the present generation, have accepted all the privileges and rights which have come to them under British rule and under the British flag in a quiescent mood. They have been content to go along and accept the blessings of constitutional government and the advantages of British protection without making any fuss about it. It is only after forty years of our national history that we are seriously beginning to discuss the question of flying our flag. For at least forty years of our national life it was never thought necessary to fly the flag of our country every day on the parliament buildings. It was in the last parliament for the first time that any hon. gentleman in this House thought it necessary that the flag of Great Britain, should be flown above the parliament buildings when parliament is sitting. This indicates a peculiarly quiescent mood on the part of the public in Canada generally with regard to the exhibition of patriotism in that way. No other country with its population, extent or resources has ever got along so far in its national existence as Canada has without having more patriotic songs. True, I think in no part of the British Empire is ' God Save the King ' sung so loyally or so frequently on public occasions as in Canada, but outside of that there are very few songs that Canadians sing which are emblematic of their devotion to this country of ours. There is ' The Maple Leaf For Ever,' a song that appeals to the patriotism of every Canadian, and our friends in the province of Quebec sing their patriotic song ' O Canada,' which is, I believe, the best Canadian national anthem. Why is it that we have not more of our national songs, and why is it that we do not fly our national flag more? I felt that sense of humiliation that hon. gentlemen have spoken of when, about ten years ago, on crossing the River St. Lawrence, I found on the other side an adequate display of the American flag od the public buildings and in their public squares such as is not to be found in Canada. The desire that Canadians should make a public exhibition of their devotion to their country either in song or by the use of their flag is one that is growing, and one which I think deservedly ought to grow. Various provinces have adopted the provision that the flag should be flown from the school buildings, a most admirable provision, one that should obtain in every province, so that the young people may learn to realize the history of their country, its traditions, and the great wealth of privilege and right which have been conferred upon us as a result of British rule. Too often our fathers and ourselves and children accept all these advantages and have nothing to say about them, failing to recognize the source from which they came.

With regard to dealing with the propo-

sition contained in the resolution of my hon. friend I think it is a question which is worthy of consideration. I think that any foreigner who comes into Canada, no matter from where he comes, should feel that in this country he is not able to do any more than he can in any other country by the exhibition of the flag of the country to which he belongs. I think there is to be found legislation in the other countries of the world which deals with the exhibition of flags of alien nations, and tnat we should have something of the same kind on the statute-book of Canada. I think that would be in accordance with the sentiment which obtains in Canada to-day ; w'hich for the last ten or fifteen years has been increasing, and which was practically non-existent before. But, this is something which must be formulated in a statute, and the greatest care must be exercised because when you come to deal with the flags of foreign countries it is a very delicate matter. The idea of my hon. friend is a good one, but a cursory examination of the wording of his resolution will show that it is altogether too crude to crystallize into a statute. I submit that in order to deal with the matter in a sensible, sane and practical way, there should be delay so that inquiry may be made as to what is the best form for legislation to take. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Beattie) proposes that regulations should be issued by the government insisting that :

Where a foreign flag or ensign is displayed or used either upon a flag pole, private residence, vehicle, or in any other manner or place whatsoever within this Dominion

I suppose that language would be suffi-cientlv broad to cover the display of flags on pleasure boats, although were one to apply the maxim ejusdem generis it is doubtful whether these words would apply to anything but something akin to a flag pole, private house, or vehicle. The hon. gentleman then goes on in his resolution to except only, the accredited representative of a foreign government from this regulation, but vessels of a foreign country within the harbours of Canada have by international law the right to fly the flag of their nation.

Mr. BEATTIE.

That is acknowledged.

This resolution would not apply to such a vessel at all.

Mr. MACDONALD.

I am merely citing that to show that if we are to pass legislation on the subject a great deal more care would be necessary than to merely adopt the wording of this resolution and make it law. With the object of giving the matter that greater care I think the hon. gentleman (Mr. Beattie) should

accept the assurance of the Minister of Finance that inquiry will be made, and Mr. MACDONALD.

withdraw his resolution. Then, the resolution says :

That a Union Jack of equal size and make shall also be hoisted and displayed therewith at the same time and place, and that the Union Jack shall always be placed in the most prominent position on every occasion.

Perhaps- I am looking at it with the critical eyes of a lawyer, but it does seem to me that it would not be dignified for the parliament of Canada to dispose of such a question by adopting the language of the resolution which is very crude indeed. The use of the word ' occasion ' in the resolution seems to be ungrammatical because instead of referring to time or place it would seem to apply to a vehicle, flagpole, or private residence. We are all anxious with my hon. friend (Mr. Beattie) that this question should be properly dealt with, and that every Canadian should be * encouraged to show on all occasions his devotion to Canada and the empire, but when we are legislating aoout the use of foreign flags we have to proceed very carefully. It was the Manitoba government I believe, that first blazed the way with regard to the flying of the *flag on public schools and I remember that a strong imperialist and a man of high position in the mother country who visited Canada shortly after that action of the Manitoba government, spoke to me in reference to what could be done in Canada for strengthening the ties which bind her to the mother country. I, of course, told him that the Canadian people, with firm determination of purpose and sincere devotion of heart were proud of their British allegiance, and were so content under it that nobody ever thought of questioning it, but if anything were to be done we ought to encourage the display of the British flag on all occasions and cultivate among the people a knowledge of national songs which in all countries, and all ages have best given the inspiration of patriotism to the people. Gradually, since the order of the Manitoba government, the different provinces have been taking the question up, and as a result I believe that in recent years our people are expressing more generally than ever before their pride in being Canadians, and citizens of the British Empire. I am sincerely anxious that some legislation should be passed as a result of the proposition now put forward by my hon. friend (Mr. Beattie), and in order that the legislation to be enacted may be appropriate and well considered I would move that the debate be adjourned.

Mr. W. S. MIDDLEBRO (North Grey).

The hon. member from Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) is perfectly aware that the passage of this resolution would not crystallize its wording into law, but would merely be an

expression of opinion from this House that any foreigner rwho comes to Canada and who is so loyal to his own country that he must hoist his flag, must go to the expense of purchasing a Union Jack and hoisting it in the most prominent position. That is all the resolution amounts to. I am surprised that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Macdonald) should taunt us with waving the flag.

Mr. MACDONALD.

I did not say so, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. MIDDLEBRO.

I am a little surprised at my hon. friend saying he is surprised that we have not seen more of the flag and that the flag has not been hoisted on more public buildings and made more conspicuous in Canada than it has been. I believe that is in part due to the policies which his party has advocated in the past. We know that in years gone by if there was one thing more than another with which the Conservative party were taunted it was waving the old flag for party purposes, and we know that the party opposite were taunted with advocating a policy of unrestricted reciprocity, commercial union and continental freedom of trade. We know that his own leader at that time, Hon. Edward Blake, said if that policy had been insisted on, and if they had been successful at the polls the ultimate result would have been annexation to the country to the south. We admired Hon. Edward Blake for taking that course. We know'that on this same occasion Sir John Macdonald uttered the famous words: ' A British subject I was born, a British subject I will die So it ill becomes the hon. member for Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) to say he was surprised that the flag has not been used in the past more than it has been.

Mr. MACDONALD.

In the days of Sir John A. Macdonald did he find it necessary to fly the flag over the parliament buildings of this country?

Mr. MIDDLEBRO.

Not only did the party of the hon. gentleman not propose that, but they proposed to put into force a policy that would ultimately have led to our annexation to the United States.

Mr. MACDONALD.

Let me inform my hon. friend that it was under this government that the flag first flew over this building.