Mr. McKENZIE:

I was present at the inquiry on the 2nd at Sydney Mines and Sydney, which are only tw'elve miles distant from Big Bras d'Or.

Mr. REID:

Mr. Duchemin says that on the 2nd he was conferring with Mr. McCormick.

Mr. McKENZIE:

But the Order in Council does not allow him anything for that.

Mr. REID:

I disagree with the hon. gentleman in that respect.

Mr. McKENZIE:

For any preliminaries he gets nothing.

Mr. REID:

I do not wish to be unfair to the hon. member, but as I understand the Order in Council, if a commissioner occupies his time serving subpoenas and travelling long distances to confer with parties who know something about the matter under consideration, he certainly is entitled to remuneration for the time so occupied.

Mr. McKENZIE:

If the minister will pardon me-

Order.

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member has put his case before the House. It is competent for the minister to make his reply; I do not think it is competent for the hon. gentleman to enter into a discussion of the matter.

Mr. KEID:

In his letter Mr. Duchemin states that he was employed on the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 12th and 13th yet he charges only for services on the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th, six days. The records of tne department show that he was employed on the 9th, which is the day upon which he made out and sent in his last report. Mr. Duchemin did not send in any false statements. He sent in a statement of accounts for the days upon which he was, in my opinion, fairly and honestly employed in connection with the several cases which ne had under consideration. For his services on those occasions he was entitled to remuneration. I feel that it is unfair for any member to do anything which would give the people of the province of Nova Scotia the impression that Mr. Duchemin committed a fraudulent act. He did not do so, if he had he would not have been paid the accounts which he rendered for his services in connection with these investigations.

Mr. CARROLL:

Mr. Duchemin has been publicly charged in Nova Scotia with fraud in connection with this matter.

Mr. REID:

I have never heard of anything of the kind. If a charge of fraud was made against Mr. Duchemin, it is difficult

for me to understand why he should not at once have taken it up.

Mr. SINCLAIR:

Does the minister not

think it looks suspicious that an account should be sent in for six days' work in respect of something that it took only three hours to accomplish? If this gentleman is allowed to pad his accounts in that way, where will the limit be? What will prevent his claiming ten days or twenty days' service just as well as six by saying that on ten or twenty days he was talking to somebody about the matter?

Mr. REID:

That is a fair question; 1

will give the hon. gentleman my opinion in that regard. I have known of cases decided in court within the space of two hours; yet in respect of that case days and weeks and months of work had to be done previous to its trial. Of course, these preliminary services had to be paid for by the parties to the suit. Every one knows that Mr. Duchemin had to travel some distance from his home-

Mr. SINCLAIR:

Twelve miles.

Mr. REID:

-to hold the investigations; surely Mr. Duchemin was entitled to remuneration for these services. The hon. member for North Cape Breton has the records before him. He knows well that Mr. Duchemin could not hold an investigation miles from his own home in one day.

Mr. McKENZIE:

He says he did it in

one day.

Mr. REID:

He says that the evidence

was taken on that one day, but his time ' was previously occupied in travelling, serving subpoenas, and so on. The hon. member for North Cape Breton, from the returns brought down, naturally understood that six accounts were rendered by Mr. Duchemin. I have explained this by saying that one account of Mr. Duchemin was divided into six different items for the purpose of showing what the charges were in connection witn each investigation.

Taking into consideration the whole circumstances, I can only say that in my judgment Mr. Duchemin's charges for these investigations were fair, reasonable and honest. Mr. Duchemin did not commit any fraudulent act. and I do not think that any member of this House should, by putting a question on the Order Paper, do anything that might injure the reputation of any esteemed citizen of Canada.

Sir ROBERT BORDEN moved:

That the return respecting the purchase of two submarines, brought down and laid upon the table of the House this day by the Minister of Naval Defence, be printed forthwith, and that rule 74 be suspended for that purpose.

He said: This return relates to an important matter that has involved a good deal of discussion in the House and has attracted a good deal of attention throughout the country It would seem to me appropriate that the documents should be printed forthwith so that members of the House and the people of the country as a whole may have a better opportunity of making themselves acquainted with them than they would otherwise have.