The hon. member has taken it for granted that I did not make a protest with respect to the increase in the freight rates. I may tell him that I did make this the subject of an interview, a somewhat warm one, between the Minister of Railways and myself. And that is what I mean when I say that you can not do anything with these men who are not at the top and who are , not themselves responsible for the rates. The hon. gentleman, I am sure, will agree with me in that.