April 12, 1916


On motion of Sir Thomas White (Minister of Finance), Bill No. 74, to levy a Tax on Business Profits, was read the third time and passed,


POWERS OF THE RAILWAY COMMISSION.


On motion of Hon. J. D, Reid (Acting Minister of Railways and Canals), Bill No. 87, to amend the Railway Act, was read the third time and passed.


CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.


' On motion of Hon. J. D. Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries), Bill No. 75, to amend the Canada Shipping Act, was read, the second time, and the House went into committee thereon, Mr. Rhodes1 in the Chair. On section 1-persons acting as master and engineer:


LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR:

Will the minister explain that?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

The necessity of this Bill arises in consequence of the fact that a great many small boats are now being propelled by combustion engines using gasoline or oil as fuel. When the present Act was passed no such boats.were in use. The Act applies to steamboats, no matter by what means the power is obtained. Under the law at present if any boat carries passengers it must, unless it is not more than five tons in size, have a certificated engineer and a certificated captain. Consequently,

boats that can very well be managed by one man who has the qualifications both of engineer and of master have to employ two men. This has caused a good deal of trouble in different parts of the country, especially in British Columbia. Section 629 of the Act as at present reads: .

No person shall act in the double capacity of engineer and master on any steamboat, and no person shall, except when the boiler1 is fired from the engine room, act as engineer and fireman on any steamboat having an engine of over seven nominal horse-power and required by law to carry a certificated engineer.

It is proposed to add these words to that section:

Subject to such regulations as may be made by the minister this section shall not apply to any passenger ship not exceeding sixty-five feet registered length propelled by an internal combustion engine, or by a steam engine with a flash boiler, or by electricity.

Under the provisions of this amendment, one man can act as both .master and engineer on board any boat of that description.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

What is meant iby the terms "internal combustion engine" and "flash boiler?"

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

The internal combustion engines are those in which gasolene or fuel oil is used. They have no boilers, and, of course, do not employ steam. A flash boiler is the special type of boiler used, to produce steam by means of gasolene. The flash of the gasolene heats the boiler and produces the steam.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

What are the qualiffications of an engineer on a gasolene boat?

jMr. HAZEN: As the law stands to-day they are exactly the same as those of the engineer of a steamboat. We propose to amend that by the second section of this Bill.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

Does not the minister think there has been some omission in the second section? The first section provides that section 629 shall not apply to any passenger ship not exceeding 65 feet registered length, propelled1 by an internal combustion engine, or by an engine with a flash boiler, or by electricity. The second section is limited to internal combustion engines.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

The second section does not apply to steam engines with flash boilers.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I think it requires some change. Otherwise the boats with engines 176i

propelled' by electricity would not be provided fOT.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. REID:

Among the Thousand Islands there are many small boats not exceeding 65 feet registered length propelled by internal combustion engines or by flash boilers. Those boats carry passengers, but under the regulations, Canadian boats of this type have been forbidden to carry passengers, and the American boat men have had a monopoly of this business. I suppose the same conditions prevail in other international waters.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR:

This is intended to cover everything excepting boats propelled by sails. Will the minister say whether it covers the case of private yachts? In the coastal waters and the inland waters of Canada there are a great many private yachts that carry passengers and go on excursions. Sometimes large numbers are carried on these boats. Is it intended that the Bill should cover such boats as these?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

It applies to any vessel that carries passengers which does not exceed 65 feet in length.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. REID:

It will be readily understood that in. the case of an open boat with a gasolene engine or a flash 'boiler, it is easy for one man to act as -both captain and engineer, and this amendment will permit Canadian owners to carry passengers amon* the Thousand Islands as the Americans do now.

Ilt3Xt5 a statement prepared by one of my technical officers which says:

In respect to engineers, the present Act n0 d'stmction between ships propelled by steam or internal combustion engines * consp quently the engineers must be qualified'to take charge of steam and have service afloat with steam boilers and engines, steam being more dangerous. 6 H

Applications have been received from the National Association of Gas Engineers and certain ship-owners that the law should be changed so that marine engineers' certificates, valid only m ships fitted with internal combustion engines, might be issued to men competent to handle such machinery, and who would have obtained their sea-going experience with internal combustion engines. Ship-owners complain that now they have to employ a man with a certificate as engineer who may not understand an internal combustion engine and pay another man actually to handle the machinery. Although comparatively few ships are as yet affected, yet it appears desirable to provide means for issuing the special certificate asked for.

The question of engineers for internal combustion engines introduces certain difficulties

as regards obtaining proper experience and as certain ships whilst propelled by internal combustion engines may have steam boilers to drive pumps, steering engines or other auxiliaries, it is therefore considered better to have a simple Act as now put forward leaving details to be by regulation.

The Bill was introduced some time ago, and it has been made pretty well known by the newspapers. We have had no objection to it with two exceptions, and these communications were from gentlemen who thought that we were putting some further restrictions upon the owners of gasolene boats instead of removing restrictions. There is no objection to it, as far as we are aware, and it is in the public interest that this change should be made. If my hon. friend wants further information on the subject he refers to, we might report progress; but I may say that this Bill is drawn by the technical officers of the department, who are more familiar with such matters than I personally 'am.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

There should be some

change in section 2, because the effect of this Bill would be to take away your regulations relating to a boat propelled by a steam engine with *a flash boiler or by electricity.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

After the word " engines " in the fourth line we might insert the livords " or by steam engines with flash boilers, or by electricity," and strike out the word " only."

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I suppose' " by electricity " would mean boats having a certain power?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CERTIFICATED MOTOR BOATS.
Sub-subtopic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink

April 12, 1916