Mr. MURPHY:

Has the minister made

any appointments under these Orders in Council, and if so, out of what vote were the appointees paid?

Mr. REID:

We have not made any appointments to the Inside Service under the Order in Council to which the hon. gentleman refers. These appointments were

made through the Civil Service Commissioners, and payment is made out of this vote.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

As I understand it, those whose names the minister read were returned soldiers?

Mr. REID:

No. No appointments of returned soldiers have been made by the Department of Customs in the Inside Service, but, so far as I can remember, we have appointed over two hundred in the Outside Service.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

But these appointments to the Outside Service do not relate to the vote now before the committee?

Mr. REID:

No.

Mr. TURRIFF:

Were those appointed

under the Order in. Council all between the ages of eighteen and thirty-five?

Mr. REID:

Those whose names I have read were appointed under certificate of the Civil Service Commissioners, and they are all under thirty-five.

Mr. TURRIFF:

Do I understand the

minister to say that a man between eighteen and thirty-five should not be given an appointment in the Civil Service, but should 'be given an appointment to go to the front?

Mr. REID:

Yes.

Mr. TURRIFF:

Yet he-tells us that he has appointed to the Civil Service all these men who were 'between eighteen and thirty-five? *

Mr. REID:

These appointments were

made prior to the passing of the Order in Council of January, 1917. Up to that time we could only make appointments under the Civil Service Act and under the certificate of the Civil Service Commissioners. This meant that appointments were confined to those of between eighteen and thirty-five.

Mr. TURRIFF:

The minister has told us that an Order in Council had been passed providing that, as far as possible, new appointments should be made from amongst returned soldiers.

Is there anything in that Order in Council which provides that a returned soldier who was an official of my hon. friend's department should^be dismissed on his return?

Mr. REID:

No, there is nothing of the

kind.

Mr. TURRIFF:

Will my hon. friend say if he has dismissed any returned soldiers?

Mr. REID:

I dismissed one, in so far

as my memory goes.

Mr. TURRIFF:

I presume my hon.

friend refers to the case of Colonel Spittal?

Mr. REID:

Yes.

Mr. TURRIFF:

Would my hon. friend

tell the House the Teason why he dismissed that official of his department who had served at the front for many months and who has returned?

Mr. REID:

The reason was this as far

as I can remember: Colonel (Major, I believe it is) Spittal was a returned soldier. He returned many months ago. When he came back I understand, the Militia Department notified him that they did not require his services any longer. We were paying Mr.' Spittal his salary right along and he was not performing any service either in the Militia Department or the Customs Department. I directed the Commissioner of Customs to send for Mr. Spittal, to ask him to come back and take his position, and to inform him that as they did not require him in the Milita Department and as we were paying his salary, we required his services in the Customs Department. ' I informed him that if He did not wish to come back and take his position, I would replace him. I could not see any reason why, when he came back uninjured, and just as healthy and well as the day he left, the Government of Canada should pay him a salary for walking around, the city of Ottawa. I sent for him and took the matter up with him myself. He claimed that the Militia Department, or the Government, had not the power to dispense with his services and he refused to come back to the Customs Department. I said to him: If you will not come back to the [DOT]Customs Department when you are not working for the Militia, and when they say they do not want you, then, of course, I must dispense with your services and put another man on. That is the only reason why I let Mr. Spittal out. He never was injured at the front like the returned soldiers we are speaking of. I will explain the policy which I have been following in so far as it has to do with soldiers who have returned and who have been injured at the front. They, in my opinion, should have the first chance where there is a vacancy. Mr. Spittal never was in that position and I think myself that if he had any

difference with the Militia Department his-duty was to come back and take his position in the Customs Department. If he had done so there would never have been any trouble whatever. This is the story in so far as Mr. Spittal is concerned.