July 18, 1917

LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

It is no doubt true, as my hon. friend says, that a proportionately higher rate is charged at a non-competitive point than at a competitive point, but I have sometimes seen a proportionately less rate at a non-competitive point than at a competitive point.

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CON
LIB
CON

William Wright

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WRIGHT:

I think my hon. friend should file that case, and mark it a? Exhibit "A."

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Section agreed to. On -section 346-Members of Parliament -and Board, eitc., free.


LIB

Frank Broadstreet Carvell

Liberal

Mr. CARVELL:

Why was that change

made? Why should a member (A Parliament furnish his card? If he 'happened to leave it at home he might be put off the train unless he paid his fare.

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CON

Francis Cochrane (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. COCHRANE:

How would the conductor know him?

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LIB

Frank Broadstreet Carvell

Liberal

Mr. CARVELL:

The conductors -should

surely know -a member of Parliament. However, I think I can see the .object of making the -change. There is one point I want to bring up, not that I advocate it, but I think there -should be some discussion upon it. In the rural sections of Canada it very often -becomes necessary to travel on trains pther than the ordinary -passenger trains.

I have frequently found that I would like to travel on accommodation trains, or even on freight trains. The railway company with which I have to deal h-as been very nice about it. I would simply -send a wire or a telephone message tp the superintendent and the privilege was invariably granted. I have to comply with that formula, or the conductor would be -infringing his regulations, and it would only get him in wrong if 1 bad not the authority. I w-ould like to know -if the question has ever been raised -as to whether our certificates entitle us to ride upon freight trains as well -as on passenger trains. The law -say-s " free transportation on -any of the trains of the company." That is very -broad.

Mr. M-cCRANEY: I have had occasion

to travel on freight trains in western Canada, and I -always offered them my pass as the certificate of my right to do -so. It has never -been questioned. The conductors in our -p-art of the -country take lit for granted that we are -authorized to ride on freight trains.

I would like to ask the minister if there has been -any trouble over the showing of the certificate of -a member of Parliament. I think if -a member of Parliament is known to a conductor there is np reason why his -pass -should be shown. If he happened to le-ave it -at home, why should he not be carried without it, if he is kno-wn to the -conductor?

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LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

As a matter of fact if

they know him they do not look at his pass.

Mr. -M-cORANEY: I know they do not.

What I want to know is why -should this he in the Act? A member of Parliament gets on -a train -and, -although he is known to the conductor, the Act says he1 shall not be carried unless he produces his certificate or pass.

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CON

Francis Cochrane (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. COCHRANE:

-I do not think it is

very unfair to ask a passenger to produce

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P520 COMMONS


his ticket or fciis pass. I think the railway companies are only asking what is thedT right, and it would be going rather far to ask them to forego it. Mr. MeCRANEY: Of course, the pass is not taken up.


?

Matthew Henry Cochrane

Mr. COOEKRANE:

But it is a voucher for the transportation. The conductor takes the number of it. How many of us know the numbers of our passes? I certainly do not know mine.

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LIB

George Perry Graham

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

You have a bagful of

them.

Mr. MeCRANEY: It is all very well for ministers who travel in private cars, and who do not need passes. I know I have frequently left my pass at home, and I do not want to be under any obligation to the conductor to produce it. I am satisfied no member of Parliament would be so unreasonable as to refuse to show his pass if it were required.

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CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. E. ARMSTRONG:

One reason for this change in this Bill is that conductors complained that occasionally they were put in an embarrassing position when passengers claiming to be members produced no cards of identification. In addition, to that, the rules laid down by the railways are very strict.

Mr. MeCRANEY: If I got on a train and did not have my pass, and the conductor did not know me, I would pay my fare, take a voucher from the conductor, and ask for a refund, under the section- as it stood before. I would not be entitled to a refund under the section as it stands now. If a member of Parliament is not known to the conductor, and' has not his certificate, it is only proper -that the fare should be paid, and the member entitled to a refund.

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LIB
LIB
LIB
LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

On the Canadian Northern they are the quintessence -and boiled down essence of a nuisance.

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LIB

Robert Cruise

Liberal

Mr. CRUISE:

I was coming down to

Winnipeg not long ago, and the conductor lifted my pass and forgot to give it to me in the morning. I had to come through to Ottawa without it. I happened to be with the hon. member for Edmonton, who vouch-[Mr. Cochrane.}

ed for me to the conductor on the Grand Trunk Pacific, and I came through in that way. I do not think every time we get off a train we should have to go to the conductor or the porter to get our certificates back.

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July 18, 1917