Sir ROBERT BORDEN (Prime Minister):

I beg to lay upon the Table a return to an Order of the House moved for by the right hon. leader of the Opposition (Sir Wilfrid Laurier) with regard to correspondence exchanged between the Board of Trade of the city of Quebec and the Prime Minister on

the subject of the report of the Special Commission on Railways.

In connection with the resolutions relating to the Canadian Northern Railway Company and the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, of which I gave notice yesterday and which appear in the Votes and Proceedings, I beg to lay on the Table, for the information of the House, the following financial statements:

In the matter of the Canadian Northern Railway system:

Balance sheet, June 30, 1916. -

Statement of securities issued and fixed charges, June 30, 1917.

Statement of liabilities, June 15, 1917.

Statement of equipment account.

List of securities for*loans.

Gross and net earnings, June 30, 1917.

Comparison of earnings, 1915, 1916 and 1917.

Statement re capital expenditure and betterments, year ending June 30, 1917.

Statement as to mileage.

In the matter of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway system:

Statement showing -bonds and other-securities authorized, issued and outstanding, and the net proceeds therefrom; also-interest payable during the period from July 1, 1917, to June 30, 1918.

Statement showing details of estimated cash requirements for the period from July 1, 1917, to June 30, 1918; the estimated surplus from the operation of the system and the net amount of aid required for the coming year.

I beg to move that these documents be-printed, and that, for this purpose, Rule 74 be suspended in relation thereto.

Mr. PUGSLEY:

Does the minister intend to lay on the Table any correspondence-with the Canadian Northern Railway company which has led up to the proposal which he has submitted to the House?

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

There is no correspondence; the matter has been taken up-by personal interview. The documents which I have laid on the table of the House have been given me by the Secretary of the Canadian Northern railway and the Vicepresident of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway company respectively.

Mr. GERMAN:

Does the minister know whether these statements differ in any material particular from the statements found in the report of the Royal Commission? In that report these matters are gone into very fully.

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

These are statements presented by the company and certified by the auditors of the company. Whether they differ in detail, or the extent to which they differ in detail, I am not prepared at this moment to say. They are, however, official statements of the company which I lay before Parliament as such in order that they may be printed for the information of the members.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Yesterday my hon. friend said that the Government had information that the p'edgees of certain stock of the company would adopt the suggestion involved in the resolutions. Is my hon. friend prepared to lay that information on the Table?

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

There are no further written documents than those which I have laid on the Table. I stated to the House a moment ago that these negotiations have been carried on between officials of the two companies and members of the Government. I said yesterday that the owners and pledgees of the stock would, I was confident, be prepared to enter into the agreement referred to in the resolutions.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

All this was verbal?

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

All our negotiations have been oral.

I should like to convey to the House the report of Surgeon-General J. T. Fotheringham with regard to a matter which has led to inquiry in the House, that is, the circulation in Canada of a hook called " The Tiddlers." Cablegrams have been despatdheu to Great Britain for further information. No replies have as yet been received, but in the meantime I thought it desirable that the report of Surgeon-General Fotheringham to the Minister of Militia and Defence should be presented to Parliament for the information of hon. members.

Sir Robert Borden read this report:.

Memorandum.

Department of Militia and Defence.

Ottawa, 30th July, 1917.

The Honourable the Minister,

Dept, of Militia and Defence.

Reference to Canada and Canadian troops in " The Fiddlers."

Sir,-I have the honour, in reply to your submission to me of pamphlet marginally noted and of certain attached communications, to submit the following for your consideration :

1. The pamphlet is, apparently, meant to attract attention to alleged shortcomings on the part of the British Government in the matter of temperance legislation, and would appear to affect Canada only in so far as Canadian troops are held up therein as horrible examples of the result of certain alleged failures on the part of the British Government.

2. Without being meant as an attack on Canadian authorities or Canadian troops its statements reflect very seriously upon the morals and military efficiency of Canadian troops. It is suggested, please, that if allowed to reach the Canadian public these statements should be accompanied by a full and definite refutation in the public interest.

Harm has already been done by similar irresponsible and exaggerated statements from other sources. Alarm and anxiety have been aroused in some quarters in Canada altogether out of proportion to what the facts of the case would warrant, and such ill results could not fail to follow upon the publication of the pamphlet in question unless it were accompanied by a statement of the truth, which is altogether different from the picture presented in the pamphlet in question.

3. Statements occur in the pamphlet reflecting on the Canadian troops as to (a) alcoholism, (b) venereal disease. These are all grossly exaggerated and overdrawn. The general impression left upon a reader could not fail to be erroneous. The picture is entirely contrary to my own observation and experience during two years of daily contact with all ranks, for six months in England and for eighteen months on our western front.

A.-As Regards Drink:

It is a gross libel on the men and a great unkindness to their relatives at home to set forth isolated examples (which are not now called in question) without stating percentage and numbers of troops involved and showing the real prevalence of the conditions charged.

(a) It is equally unfair to quote as representative of present conditions the state of affairs at the outset of the wai!* and particularly at Salisbury Plain,-if for no other reason than that the majority of the First Contingent were British born and left but few relatives in Canada.

(b) Positive evidence to the contrary may be quoted as follows:

Major General John Hughes in reporting on the 28th June, 1917, to the Adjutant General, Ottawa, upon the subject of his visits and inspections made during the month of May last in England and France states as follows:

"I asked for the crime sheets of the last month in every camp and was pleased to find that for drunkenness there was less than one case per thousand men per week, and this was

not in any one camp alone but the average of all camps in England."

This statement applies for the month of April. 1917.

Major General S. B. Steele, C.B., M.V.O., general officer commanding troops. Shorn-clifte, on the 3rd May, 1917, reports as follows to the general officer commanding Canadian overseas military forces, London:

"With an average occupation strength of 20,000 troops, both Imperial and Canadian, the cases of drunkenness work out an average of three per thousand per week. This average has during the past year or more neither increased nor decreased, although at times there have been from 40,000 to 50,000 troops in the Shorncliffe area."

These figures, it will be noted, apply' to a period of more than a year.

Col. C. A. Smart, officer commanding Canadians, Shorncliffe, reports on the 1st May, 1917, for the Shorncliffe area as follows: "Average daily strength, including all hospitals, for the month of

April 31,296

Average daily occupation strength

for the month of April 19,748

Total number of cases of drunkenness

for the month of April 74

Percentage of cases against total

strength 0023

Percentage of cases against occupation

strength 0038"

You will note from the above that the actual percentage of cases for one month is less than one-half of one per cent on the actual occupation strength, and I am sure that you will agree that this is a particularly gratifying state of affairs.

General Steele also informs me that Colonel Burns-Bogg, the town commandant, Folkestone, has expressed to him his admiration for the splendid behaviour of the Canadian troops in this area and he considers that it is not excelled in any other part of Great Britain.

(c) It should be noted that cases of drunkenness, few as they are, are to be charged, not against the camp canteens but against licensed places outside -the camp lines and under civil control. These, of course, are placed out of bounds by the military authorities whenever they appear to be the occasion

'of disorder among the troops. The camp canteens supply only beer and being under strict military control with very severe limitation of the hours of sale are, in my judgment, a safeguard instead of a menace in areas where licensed houses not under military control exist to which the troops may go from camp. I may add that this is the practically unanimous opinion at the front.

(d) The run# ration at the front.

Reference is made in the pamphlet to this

topic. It is true that with the best of control unfortunate incidents will occasionally occur due to pilfering from the battalion issue of rum before it reaches the men in the trenches. This is, from my experience at the front, a very rare occurrence. The restrictions surrounding the issue are such that ill effects are practically controlled, and, speaking as A.D.M.S. of a division at the front, it is my conviction that during the six months at least of bad weather it is necessary for the efficiency of the men that rum be available for special issue on occasions considered by com-

manding officers to justify it. These requests from commanding officers go to brigade headquarters and are by them submitted for approval or otherwise to the A.D.M.S. of the division, upon which approval the supply officer is authorized by divisional headquarters to make the issue. It is not issued to all ranks but to those bodies of men who are in special need. For instance a Divisional Ammunition Column or a supply train are not issued with rum on the same conditions as apply in the case of an infantry or particularly a pioneer battalion who have been all night at work in the rain and mud. In no case is the issue a matter of routine. It should also be stated that the regulations as they now exist are the result of two years' experience and are much more stringent as well as better observed than was the case in the earlier months of the war.

(e) Figures from Britain showing the number of arrests for drunkenness, also number of troops concerned, have been cabled for.

(f) It may be noted as additional general evidence of the good conduct of the Canadian troops in England that on May 29, 1917, Major General G. B. Hughes, General Officer Commanding 5th Division, wrote as follows to Major General Sir Richard Turner, V.C., K.C. M. G., D.S.O., General Officer Commanding Canadian Forces in Britain:

My dear General

I am anxious to inform you that this division held a sporting meeting in Godaiming on the 24th of May, at which there were present between eight and ten thousand men of the Division, as well as a large number of the people of Godaiming.

There was not a single case of drunkenness or disorder of any kind reported either bv the military police or the civil police of Godaiming, or any of the other villages on that occasion.

Yours faithfully.

(Sgd.) G. B. Hughes."

(g) Insanity.

The pamphlet in question contains on page 45 the following statement:

"A doctor from a Canadian Hospital said a large percentage of their troops had had to be sent back to Canada rendered permanentlv insane through the action of alcohol. Facts in 'Daily' News, Oct. 31, 1916."

This statement gives one a fair idea of the credibility of the pamphlet as a whole. I can of my own knowledge give it an absolute denial. 'Only a small number of Canadian troops have been returned insane. The vast majority have recovered or will do so. and alcohol has played a part in only a small number of cases. The Military Hospitals Commission reports on July 31 as follows:- An analysis of fifty cases at the Ontario Military Hospital at Cobourg dated February 1, 1917, shows that in only two cases does alcohol appear as the apparently dominant factor although there are in all thirteen in which alcoholism figures as an important factor either in precipitating or modifying the condition, in addition to other more predominant abnormal, primary conditions. The total number of cases so far returned to Canada, as shown by the records of the M.H.C is only 222. It will be borne in mind that the total number of recruits enlisted is 406,209 to March 31, 1917.

The following comments are made hy the Medical Superintendent of the Military Hospitals Commission:-

"Eleven of these were heavy drinkers, but the condition was directly due to alcohol in only five of the eleven. In the other six of the eleven, the mental condition itself was probably responsible for drinking.

The total roll of returned Insane men is not yet complete, insanity, feeble mindedness and specific diseases of the nervous system taken together, but not including epilepsy make up about 2 per cent of all returned invalids. Re-lati/vely speaking!, ,of the 'returned soldiers suffering from nervous or mental disability there are very few cases traceable directly to alcoholism.

Faithfully yours,

(Sgd.) Alfred Thompson."

It may be assumed that less than 300 cases of insanity have been returned so far to Canada since the beginning of the war.

Venereal Disease.

(a) While it is true that no one cause contributes snore strongly Ito' Venereal disease than indulgence in drink, the statements made with regard to the prevalence of venereal disease in the Canadian troops which are used to bolster up the general charges made against the liquor trade in Great Britain are all characterized by the same gross overstatement and unfair use of figures. For instance, on page 47 a quotation is given from a speech given ly Col. Sir Ha mar Greenwood in Parliament on April 23, 1917, to the effect that in fourteen months 7,000 Canadians had undergone treatment for venereal disease from one of the three Canadian camps in Britain. This statement appears in another form on another page of the pamphlet as follows: "The Government has given us figures for the army at home last year and they are 43 per 1,000. There are 7,000 cases in one Canadian camp alone." It will be noticed that the length of time, fourteen months, in which the alleged number of cases occur, is omitted, and that no statement is made as to the number of thousands of Canadian troops which had passed through that camp in the course of fourteen months without venereal disease. It is regretted that accurate figures as to the incidence of venereal disease among Candians in Britain and France are not available in Canada, but, speaking generally, they are about the same for Canadian troops in England and France as in Canada. For instance in the month of January, 1917, the percentage due to venereal disease of the total sickness among the troops in Canada was 1.8 which is as high as in England.

(b) The situation in Canada may be stated

as follows:-

Total number of recruits C.E.F. to

March 31, 1917 406,209

Total cases venereal disease admitted

in Canada in same period 10,232

Percentage of venereal disease cases to

number of recruits [DOT] 2.5

That is in every 1,000 recruits enlisted 25 developed yenereal disease in pearly three years, or about 8 per annum.

From these figures it is fair to conclude as [DOT] follows:-

In civil life the 1,000 recruits may be said to represent a population of about 4,000 made up as follows :-

Unmarried men 500

Married men 500

Wives 500

Children, 5 per family 2,500

Total 4 000

A civil population of 4,000, if incidence of venereal disease were the same as for the 1,000 men in the C.E.F. which is taken as the unit, would then have 8 cases of venereal disease in the year, or twenty-five in three years period. There is no doubt that the actual incidence in civil life, particularly in villages, towns or cities is far in excess of these figures, although no figures from civil sources are available, the disease not being registeiable under civil authority.

4. It is submitted, please, that the above criticisms on the character of the pamphlet in question are fair and represent the 'general unreliability of the pamphlet as a whole. If I may be permitted to express an opinion based upon my personal knowledge of the situation among the Canadian troops in France and Britain as regards alcoholism and venereal disease it would be that the circulation of statements such as fill the pamphlet in question, among the people of Canada is most undesirable, and should be prevented by any measures open to the authorities, having regard to the interests both of the troops themselves and of the Canadian public.

I have the honour to be, sir,

Tour obedient servant,

(Sdg.) J. T. Fotheringham,

Surgeon-General, D.M.S. Invalids.

Reference is made in this report to certain information in respect of which inquiry has been made in Great Britain. In addition to that, other messages bearing on the subject have been despatched, to which no reply has yet been received. The replies will be expedited .as much as possible, and when they are received a further statement on the .subject will be made.