August 2, 1917

CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER:

I understood the member for Montreal, St. Antoine (Sir Herbert Ames) to -say that moneys voluntarily paid into patriotic funds would be deducted from

the amount assessable for income tax, but that amounts paid into suoh funds by way of municipal or provincial taxation would not be so deducted. If that is the ease, it is most unfair. In Manitoba we have a very large tax, ^specially for the Patriotic Fund, amounting to about $8 upon each quarter-section of land. If the amount that a man pays into the Patriotic Fund in the ordinary course is deducted from his income assessable under this Act, surely the amounts collected from him by the municipality for the Patriotic Fund should be similarly deducted.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I think that paragraph (e) should be changed by striking out the words "subscribed and," so that it would read "amounts paid by the taxpayer during the year to the Patriotic and Canadian Red Cross Funds." I desire to press the view that people who contribute to these patriotic funds under a system of taxation authorized by the provincial legislatures should receive the same treatment as those who pay in a province where there is not such legislation. In New Brunswick the amount raised is, I think, about $500,000, which is a very generous contribution. Some gentlemen in the city of St. John have asked that their taxes for the Patriotic Fund should be very largely. increased beyond what they would be liable for under the law. Their request has been complied with, and the amounts which they pay are very generous. They will feel that they are discriminated against if consideration is given to those who contributed voluntarily, while no consideration is given to the people of those provinces which have passed a law providing that all people shall pay according to their means. The member for Montreal, St. Antoine, says that it would involve a good deal of bookkeeping to take into consideration the taxes paid under provincial legislation, because in many cases the amounts are comparatively small. Well, it would lead to no more bookkeeping than the making of a record of all those who contributed voluntarily, because the voluntary contributions are not all large. In New Brunswick the amount of the tax for the Patriotic Fund is endorsed upon every tax Bill; it appears separately in the assessor's books and in the books of the collector in each municipality. If .any taxpayer desired to have exemption in respect to such payments to patriotic funds, he could make out his statement just as the man who contributes voluntarily makes out his statement in order to secure exemption.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HERBERT AMES:

How would you divide up the million dollars that is given by Quebec in such a way that each taxpayer would have a fair share?

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

That, of course, is an

indirect contribution.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HERBERT AMES:

Not at all; it is raised by taxation.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

That is a contribution

by the municipality. I suppose bonds were issued for the purpose of making the contribution.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HERBERT AMES:

They did that in many cases in New Brunswick.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

In New Brunswick

there is a direct tax upon every owner of real estate in the province. As soon as the law was passed there, voluntary contributions largely ceased, because it was considered that the amount raised by taxation should take the place of voluntary contributions.

-Sir THOMAS WHITE: I should dislike very much there being any feeling that discrimination existed. Some citizens subscribe directly; others concur in legislation taxing themselves -and others for the purposes of the Patriotic Fund. Probably each taxpayer will indicate in his return the .amount for which .he has been taxed for patriotic funds. The view of my hon. friend would be met if we struck out the words " subscribed and " in paragraph (e). I would move that these words be struck out. It is hardly likely that we shall get the administration of the Act down to the mathematical nicety of a few dollars. However, we will do the best we can with it; this am.end.ment is to avoid the appearance of discrimination.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

The striking out of

those words meets the case.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink

Amendment agreed to.


LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Liberal

Mir. LEMIEUX:

What is the nature of the .special war tax imposed in Ontario? I understand that this tax was imposed for war purposes, to -assist the various funds which are incidental to the cause in Ontario.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

William Folger Nickle

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. NICKLE:

It was put into a separate fund, as I understand the matter, and administered from time to time for various objects in connection with the war-Red Cross, Sailors' Relief, purchasing machine guns, Patriotic Fund and several others.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

I am very glad for the explanation given by my hon. friend. I

may expect, as a taxpayer in Ontario, that the Minister of Finance will deduct this war tax which I have paid, in addition to my other subscriptions to the Patriotic Fund. Subsection (e) says:

"Amounts subscribed and paid by the taxpayer during the year to the Patriotic and Canadian Red Cross Funds and other patriotic and war funds approved by the minister.

This war tax should come under this subsection.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

The amount is almost negligible in the case of an individual. For instance, one mill on $10,000 would be $10.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

I am under the impression that in my Bill the tax amounted to something like $49.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

That is because my hon. friend is so wealthy.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

No, I have an ordinary property here, and it is on that property I am taxed. The tax is not an insignificant one. At all events, it seems to me that under this subsection the taxpayer should be permitted to make a deduction in that respect.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

The amount is so very little in the case of an individual. One mill on $10,000 would be $10, so that if this war tax was permitted to be deducted from an income of $10,000, a man would be allowed to deduct, from the taxes paid under this Bill, forty cents, because the tax is only four per cent on the income.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

William Sora Middlebro

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MIDDLEBRO:

I am rather of the opinion that the amount of exemption allowed in connection with contributions to the Canadian Patriotic Fund is not sufficient. On the 22nd of June, the Minister of Finance spoke in this House as follows:

The hon. member for St. Antoine (Sir Herbert Ames) said the other day that $40,000,000 had been raised or pledged in connection with those funds. Let us not overlook that; but unfortunately, in every community, there are one or two or three or more men who are rich and who are close and who have not contributed to those funds, and the people of this country feel that they should be made to contribute. If I can make them contribute, I will do so. I am not sure that it would not be well, in connection with an income tax, if we bring one down, to provide that a man should be exempted to the extent that he has contributed to the Patriotic and the Red Cross Funds, because, if you impose too Severe taxation, you 'will tend to stop

I do not say you will stop-the voluntary flow of funds for those great purposes, and it is not only the money that is valuable, but the good will.

From that I rather concluded that we were going to ibe allowed to deduct patriotic

contributions not from the income, but from the tax upon the income. That was the fair inference from what was said.

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir THOMAS WHITE:

Would not the

Government then be paying the contribution?

Topic:   GOAL SUPPLY IN THE MIARITIME PROVINCES.
Subtopic:   WAR TAX UPON INCOMES.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF THE BIDE AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink

August 2, 1917