Sir THOMAS WHITE (Minister of Finance):

On Friday last the hon. member for South Renfrew (Mr. Graham) asked for information as to payments made by the Canadian Northern Railway Company on interest account under section 29 of the Act of 1914. I beg to lay upon the Table a statement showing that the interest has been paid in full to March 1, 1917, and that the next payment of interest is due on September 1, 1917. I also beg to lay upon the Table the following statements in respect of the Canadian Northern railway:

1. Interim Condensed Balance Sheet as at April 30, 1917.

2. Statement of estimate of cost to complete lines and terminals under construction, and financial provision for same.

3. Statement of contractors' and other construction accounts outstanding, 30th June, 1917.

4. Memorandum re unsold lands.

5. Estimate of amount required for betterments and rolling stock for three years.

These statements were all enclosed in a letter from the assistant to vice-president Canadian Northern Railway system. I also lay this letter upon the Table.

Sir SAM HUGHES:

Why not let the Canadian who has taken service in the Imperial Army also have the vote?

Mr. DOHERTY:

That matter has had very careful consideration.

Sir SAM HUGHES:

There are thousands of them.

Mr. DOHERTY:

It is not merely a matter of giving a vote, but one of providing the means for taking that vote. Where you are dealing with an individual who may be found somewhere in the Imperial forces', it would certainly not be easy to provide a method by which he could be sought out and dealt with here, there and elsewhere.

Sir SAM HUGHES:

You might afford him an opportunity of voting.

Mr. DOHERTY:

I might say, however, just at this stage, seeing that this suggestion has been made, that while I am putting this measure before the House, and while it has had very considerable thought and a very earnest endeavour has been made to provide a law that would afford opportunity for every Canadian who is serving in this war to record his vote, we -and I am speaking certainly for the Government-are quite open for any suggestion looking for the more perfect attainment of that end. If a method can be produced to work out that result, I think I can say even now that we would certainly be prepared to give every consideration to a suggested method of doing it. It is not lack of disposition to extend the vote to every Canadian who is serving, that stands in the way of every Canadian getting the vote. If there be any with regard to whom it may not be possible that they should exorcise the franchise, it will be only by reason of that impossibility that they will fail to do so.

It is proposed to do away with any distinction between the soldier who is of age and the soldier who may be under 21. It is furthermore proposed to do away with . any distinction of sex as regards persons engaged in the service of Canada. Nurses, for instance, will be included, even though they

be, as they are in most cases, women. We have sought to make the measure applicable to everybody who is doing service for Canada and for the cause for which Canada is fighting in this war. By way of removing all doubts which seem to exist, we have specifically mentioned the fact that a person's being an Indian, if he be a soldier, will not exclude him from the vote. My own belief was that even under the statute as it stood, an Indian who was a soldier could vote, but there seems to have been some doubt on the subject, and that doubt is removed.

Mr. MARCIL:

Has the minister considered the case of the reservists who enlisted in the French and Belgian armies?

Mt. DOHERTY:

The question was considered in connection with a similar one in regard to Canadians in the Imperial army. The Bill, as it is presently drafted, does not provide for their vote. As I said in regard to the other question, this is not because I do not quite recognize the desirability of their being enabled to vote if it were practically possible, but because, notwithstanding consideration of different methods of getting at it, We were reluctantly forced to the conclusion that we could not find the machinery to carry it out, without creating machinery altogether out of proportion to the number of persons who would be in a position to avail themselves of it. With regard to that, as with regard to all details of the Bill, we shall be very glad of suggestions looking to improvement.

As to the method of proceeding to the election, the principal change is that this Bill proposes to provide a complete machinery overseas for the taking of the soldiers' vote, practically as though you were conducting an election over there. The results, of course, at the end of the proceeding will be communicated over here to the proper officers, and those results, combined with the results of the election as held under the ordinary provisions in Canada, will determine the result of the election. The reason for this is found, in the first place, in the increased magnitude of the work to be done over there, and in the second place, and perhaps principally, in the difficulties and the unsafety in many respects surrounding transportation between Canada and the Old Country. Under the law as it stood, for example, provision was made for the returning by each officer who took votes upon the other side to the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery in this country of the votes so taken, and

the assorting of those votes as between constituencies by the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery over here, and the forwarding of those votes to the returning officers of the different electoral districts to be counted. That might have been quite feasible in dealing with a relatively small number of votes, and if conditions with regard to transportation were such as they were at-the time of the passing of the Act. Under present conditions, the carrying out of the Act would be attended with the serious objection that the ballots taken on the other side, before they could be counted at all, would be exposed to the risk of being lost in transit. In view of these considerations, we have provided for the carrying out of the election from the initial proceedings the providing and distribution of ballots and all necessary documents, down to the counting of the votes overseas. This will necessitate' the provision of an officer whose tenure of office shall last for the election only, who shall exercise overseas 'the functions belonging in connection with an election to the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery. It is intended he shall be appointed as an Assistant Clerk of the Crown in Chancery and shall exercise overseas the powers exercised generally speaking by the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery in connection with a general election.

Sir SAM HUGHES. He will have independent powers?

. Mr. DOHERTY: For the purposes of the election operations, he shall be the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery over there. This method of dealing with the subject also calls for provision for the counting of the ballots overseas. This is a matter which has had considerable thought. It is certainly very important that there should be provided competent and reliable officers with regard to whose impartiality we should have every guarantee. As meeting those requirements the proposal of the Bill is that there should be appointed a certain number of officers who are designated as "special returning officers," and that each of these special returning officers shall have a clerk assigned to him. After the ballots have been returned respectively to the Commissioner of Canada to France; and the secretary of the High Commissioner in London, and, in this country, to an officer to be known as the general returning officer; these special returning officers with their clerks shall proceed to the sorting of the envelopes and counting of the" ballots, and shall furnish statements of the results to the commissioner to France and the secre-

tary to the High Commissioner in London respectively. The latter shall communicate by telegraph the contents of the statements, and subsequently forward by registered mail the statements themselves to the general returning officer, who is to be appointed [DOT]and act in this country to receive all returns and declare final results.

Sir SAM HUGHES:

What am I to understand the Commissioner of Canada in Paris, and the Commissioner of Canada in England, to mean?

Mr. DOHERTY:

They are to receive and transmit. It was necessary that we should have some central place in France and in England to which all of those boxes or receptacles could be forwarded for distribution to the special returning officers called upon to do the counting. We called them " ballot boxes " but by definition, we make it clear that any suitable receptacle shall answer the requirement of a "ballot box."

Sir SAM HUGHES:

Why not send them to the Deputy Clerk of the Crown in Chancery?

Mr. DOHERTY:

If my hon. friend will allow me, he will see it is merely to secure a proper location to which all the boxes can be sent. The secretary of the High Commissioner in London-because the High Commissioner himself does not figure in the matter at all-and the commissioner to France, have no function to perform with regard to the counting of the ballots. The provision is that the receptacles or boxes shall be forwarded to them closed and sealed in the best manner that can be found. Their function is limited to fixing a time and place after the expiry of a delay fixed in the Act, when they will hand those boxes over, unopened and still sealed, into the custody of the special returning officers who are to do the counting. When those special returning officers have done the counting, and the assortment also- because that would be an important part of the operation, inasmuch as the ballots will not come already assorted in boxes belonging to particular constituencies; and we have endeavoured to surround the operation of counting and assortment with every precaution that seems reasonably possible- they shall establish the result and communicate it to the commissioner in France and to the secretary of the commissioner in England for transmission to the General Returning Officer in Canada.