I do not want to make the matter too easy for the hon. gentlemen opposite. The members of the council are: F. D. Adams, Ph.D., Sc.D.,
LL.D., F.R.S. Dean, Faculty of Applied Science, McGill University, Montreal; T. Bienvenu, Esq., vice-president and general manager, La Banque Provinciale du Canada, Montreal; R. Hobson, Esq., president Steel Company of Hamilton, Ont.; S. F. Kirkpatrick, M.Sc., professor metallurgy, Queen's University, Kingston, Ont.; J. C. McLennan, Ph.D., F.R.S., professor of physics and director of the physics laboratory, University of Toronto, Toronto; A. S. Mackenzie, Ph.D., D.C.L., president Dal-housie University, Halifax, N.S.; W. C. Murray, M.A., LL.D., president University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan; R. A. Ross, Esq., E.E. (Tor.), M. Can. Soc. C.E., consulting engineer, 80 St. Francois Xavier street, Montreal; R. F. Ruttan, M.A., M.D., Sc.D., professor of chemistry and director of the chemical laboratories, McGill University, Montreal; Arthur Surveyer, B.A.Sc., M. Can. Soc. C.E., consulting engineer, 274 Beaver Hall Hill, Montreal; secretary, J. B. Challies, CE. (Tor.), M. Can. Soc. C.E., superintendent Dominion Water-Power Branch, Ottawa.
The Governor in Council. I may say that Dr. McLennan, professory of physics in Toronto, is now in England, iand the advisory council have appointed him to represent them on the advisory council there. The advantage which we get, and which they get from that is this: he meets with them and they have information of all that we are doing here along this line, and he gets information from them as to how they are carrying on their work on the other side. It is an interchange of information, of ideas, and of suggestions.
My hon. fyiend, instead of answering my question, gave a long list of handles to Dr. MacCallum. One was that he was a doctor of philosophy, and the other that he was a doctor of science, but in what line of work has he gained distinction? Is it in the line of applied science?
He is one of the most distinguished scientific men in Canada. For many years he has been professor of pathology in the University of Toronto. He is a noted physiologist, and also a chemist of high standing. I do not know any better qualified man, from the standpoint of general scientific knowledge, 'in Canada than Professor MacCallum.
I am glad to learn that he has gained distinction in the work of chemistry, because I would suppose that is the most important work that this bureau would have to perform. I recognize the very great importance of it, and all that I was anxious to know was that the work was to be undertaken on practical lines.
I have not. In preparing the list for the advisory -council the desire Wias to obtain men from the universities, and to make the very best selection of scientific men along practical lines that could possibly be made, and, of course, it must be along scientific lines. Inquiry was made in reference to Laval University, I may inform my hon. friend,
but it was not found that that university had on its list any specially distinguished professor in the lines of work which we require in the advisory council.
I am surprised to hear the hon. gentleman say that, because Laval is affiliated with all the colleges in Quebec. To be told that there was not a man to be found in that university fit to serve on a council like this is news to me.
My hon. friend should not put it that way. A great number of men in Canada are fit to serve on a body like this, but we want only a restricted number, and we try to get those who will best make up that restricted number. I am informed that. Mr. Surveyor is a graduate of Laval.
Laval occupies an unique position in this country. It is the university that first had a Royal charter in Canada; it is representative of one class of the population. In undertaking a work such as my hon. friend is now undertaking, I assume that he desires the co-operation of all the elements of the population. Laval has produced many distinguished men; some of them are to-day in Quebeo colleges-men of high standing. They may be found also in the Royal Society of Canada and in other learned bodies. I am sure that if the minister will give the matter consideration, he will come to the conclusion that it would be good policy to include in this body a representative of Laval University.
-I take very much the same position as that taken by the member for Moosejaw (Mr. Knowles). I cannot help thinking that however meritorious this proposal may be or would be at any other time, this is not an appropriate time or occasion to introduce it. There is the foundation here of a large organisation, involving the expenditure of a large amount of money -money that will be devoted more to organization than to the producing of results. At this time we cannot afford to 6pend money on anything but results'. At a time when the requirements of the
country are so immense, so urgent; when we are descending to the point of soliciting private help from individuals throughout the country for the carrying of our war burdens, we should not enter upon what the member for Moosejaw calls a nebulous scheme of scientific research. My hon. friend mentioned two matters that are of interest particularly to the prairie West. One is the discovery at Moosejaw of a method for the production of gas from straw. This is a matter of inventive genius; it is not in any way indebted to scientific research arrangements; it is not connected with this or any other similar proposal. My hon. friend now proposes to introduce a subsidiary matter in connection with that as an excuse for the establishment of this big organization. If he is desirous of carrying to success the extraction of various articles from the tar product of^ the gas, a small grant to the university of Saskatchewan will produce all the results in that particular that his proposed organization will produce. The same may be said with regard to the tar sand of the Athbaska. If my hon. friend is desirous of securing information that will lead to the utilization of the tar sand, a small grant to the university of Alberta would produce probably better results than would be produced under this organization that he proposes. The time is ill-judged for launching what will turn out to be a very expensive organization, whether it produces any results or not. The amount he asks for is not seriously large; it is the principle that I object to-the principle of introducing new expenditures and new causes for expenditure into the Budget at this time of stress and trial, when we are preaching, or assuming to preach, to the people the necessity of their saving in order that they may serve.