Mr. REID:

No. That Bill had to go through, and the other Bills had to go through, and this session has been kept busy. I believe that in the twenty-six years that I have been here there never has been as much important legislation passed as during the present session.

Mr. MACDONALD:

There never was so much bad legislation.

Mr. REID:

It is all good legislation. The present pension law is administered in the same way as if it had been a law passed by Parliament. Anything that is necessary to meet the situation or to provide amendments can be done by Order in Council, and the Prime Minister stated that some matters that were brought to his attention to-day, and other matters, were being considered by the Government. Hon. gentlemen will admit that with this House continuously in session, and ministers busy here all day and up to late at night, it was impossible to take many things that were urgent.

Mr. MACDONALD:

You are the only

minister who does any work.

Mr. REID:

No. they have all been working very hard. This question will be taken up and dealt with and we will carry the matter along until Parliament meets again. The hon. gentleman speaks of what the United States have done in the short time since they have been at war. He knows that when this war came on there was no preparation. We had to initiate everything and get the organization started. The United States knew this war was going on and they were getting ready for the war that they would eventually get into. They have had the advantage of our experience and of that of other nations. I believe that the Government and people of this country have done more in this war than the Government and people of any other country in the world. I do not take second place to any country or government. The people and Government of Canada have done

everything possible to further their participation in the war. The question of an increase in the pensions is being considered ai d an increase will be given. The present rate of pensions was unanimously agreed to bv the members of this House and now all agree that the question of the rate of pensions should again be considered. The Government are considering the matter and will come to a conclusion as to an increase in the pension. When we meet again the House will be in a position to reconsider and readjust the whole matter. A matter of this kind is very important to the men at the front, to those whom they have left behind and to the people of the country as a whole. Criticism with regard to it is good. While the criticism of my hon. friend from Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) is very severe, we are still glad to have it. This criticism will result in good and we will consider the different suggestions which have been made.

I was surprised to hear my hon.

9pm friend from Edmonton (Mr. Oliver) say that there was a possibility that he might not return. We all like to have him here.

Mr. OLIVER:

I presume that is why

my hon. friend insists on putting through the Military Voters' Bill and the War-Time Elections Bill.

Mr. SINCLAIR:

I am in thorough sympathy with this vote and I do not wish for a moment to delay its passage. But the minister slid over one or two questions that I did think he ought to have dealt with. On two or three occasions the question of insuring the lives of soldiers was brought up by speakers, and I do not think that the minister has given any answer on that question. It is a matter of the very greatest importance, .and if it is true that the insurance companies have refused altogether to accept risks on the men who are liable to be called out, then ilt is a question upon which the Government ought to take some action. I recollect that at the time of the South African war, the late Right Hon. Sir Charles Tupper proposed a scheme by which the lives of the soldiers were to be protected by life insurance. I do not think his scheme was ever carried out, but I remember that he advocated it. I have seen in the press that in the United States the premium1 of insurance on, a soldier is very low. Something like $3.50 or $4 a month for $5,000 is what is being paid by soldiers who have been recruited under the new Military Service Bill of the United

States. I have no doubt that soime arrangements have been made by the Government of the United States with the insurance companies by which they are protected financially. Why is it that our Government have not done something? Is it not of the greatest importance that the men who can afford to pay life insurance should have an opportunity of insuring their lives before they are drafted? I join with my hon. friend from Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) in condemning the Govfernment for having allowed this question of pensions to lie over since the 11th of June, without having dealt with it. Why did they not deal with it? Surely they have had time enough to take this question up since the 11th of June. Look at the resolution placed on the Order Paper by the hon. the Minister of Finance (Sir Thomas White). I think the Minister of Customs (Mr. Reid) was a little astray in what he told us to-night. He explained that this proposal was simply for the purpose of appointing a commission and of making certain regulations governing the commission, but that it did not give them any power to deal with the question of pensions. If he looks at the- proposal on the Order Paper he will find that he is altogether mistaken in regard to the effect of it. This is the proposal:

Resolved, that it is expedient to establish a Commission to be known as "The Board of Pension Commissioners for Canada," consisting of three Commissioners, and to provide for salaries and expenses in connection therewith, and to empower the Board to award pensions, allowances, and gratuities to any persons who nave served in the military or naval expeditionary forces of Canada during the present war and have been disabled on such service, and to their children; and to the widows, children and dependents of such persons when death occurs during or was due to such service; the said pensions, allowances and gratuities to be paid out of moneys appropriated by Parliament for the purpose.

You will see that the resolution deals not only with the appointment of a pension commission, but with the whole question of pensions. There is no doubt that the Government deserves to he condemned for neglecting this important matter all through last summer. It should have been dealt with. There are a number of other things in connection with the military affairs of this country on which the Government has fallen, down and with which it has not dealt. It has fallen down on the question of national service; on the question of recruiting; on the question of raising the soldiers' paywhich has been brought up in the

House a number of times-on the question of pensions, and has devoted all its time for the last (few months to schemes of a very low order, tampering rwith the franchise, as any one can see by the measure now being forced through the Senate. The Government has had plenty of time to attend to questions of that kind, but apparently not time to attend to important questions in relation to our military forces, which should have been attended to. What has the minister to say about the insurance policies?

Mr. REID:

The hon. member for Edmonton raised the insurance question this afternoon. He referred to the fact that it had been brought to the attention of the Government and the Prime Minister informed him that the whole matter would be taken into consideration.

Mr. COPP:

It seems to me a regrettable fact that great hardships have arisen, and will arise in the future, in regard to pensions, unless the Government takes steps to put the law on a better basis. I have at this moment received an answer to an application for a pension from a widow in my county. The case seems to me a very hard one indeed. As the hon. member for Piotou was speaking I was reading the letter I received from the Board of Pension Commissioners refusing the application for the pension. The situation is this: Some fifteen years ago this woman was left a widow with six young children. She had a small farm and kept her family together until they grew up. One married, and two sons were left at home. One enlisted and went to the front, returned and was discharged. After he recovered his health he re-enlisted and went overseas the second time. He had been there only a few" months when he was killed. The eldest son is at home working the farm, but he may leave at any time and get married, or anything may happen to him, and if anything happens, this widow will be absolutely alone. The board refused the pension, and they were probably right according to law. I have no fault to find with the Board of Pension Commissioners, I have had occasion to go to the board during the last two or three years and have been treated with the greatest courtesy, and I think they would do the best they could under the circumstances. The answer I have received from them to-night is that the law reads " wholly or mainly dependent upon;" and, they cannot get around that point. They practically .admit, although they do not say it in so many words, that it is a hardship. Reading between the lines, I would say they -consider the case one in which relief should be given. 'This woman is ipoor. Her son has given his life in defence of his country. And now, because of some words in the la/w, the com- . missioners are debarred from considering the question of granting the pension which she deserves, and which I am suro the commissioners think she deserves. If such is the law-and I presume it is-it is very unfortunate that Parliament is to be prorogued without placing upon the statute-book a law giving greater latitude to the commissioners, permitting them to investigate each particular case, and -deal with each case on -its merits. This case, I am sure, deserves the greatest consideration. I understand the Minister of Customs, who has charge of these estimates, to state that while no law is being passed this year to amend the Pensions Act, these cases will be provided for by Order in Council. I sincerely trust such an Order may be passed as will give relief in this and other cases on the same footing.

Pensions payable to militiamen and on active service as follows: Northwest Rebellion, 1S85,

$14,000 ; general, $30,000.

Mr. REID:

The -hon. member for Edmonton wanted a list of those receiving pensions under the item " Northwest Rebellion, 1885."

Mr. OLIVER:

No, I did not wish for that. All I wanted was to know how it came that we were voting this particular sum of money for the Northwest rebellion.

Mr. REID:

We pay it every year to the Northwest Rebellion veterans.

Mr. OLIVER:

Is- it- not different from the item last year?

Mr. REID:

No, it is the old item. We have it every year. The whole list is in the Auditor General's Report. The question was as to the militia pensions generally.

Mr. OLIVER:

I understood the minister to say that part of this .money was for the Home Defence, or Home Guard Service. I desire a fuller explanation in regard to that. Besides, there is an increase of $24,000 since last year. That is what particularly claimed my attention.

Mr. REID:

The hon. gentleman will remember the letter I read from the Militia Department, in which it was said that the increase was on account of men. on the

Home Defence. There is one general 'pension account as it were. On account of the large number of men serving in the Home Defence force, the pension list is increasing. For instance, a member of the Home Defence force, while guarding one of the locks, was killed through no fault of nis own. His case would come under the Militia Act.

Mr. OLIVER:

The item shows an increase of $24,000, which, I assume, is entirely in respect of pensions on account of disability during service in the home defence force. The size or extent of the home defence force, the circumstances under which it is maintained, and the kind of service it renders, are things which are not generally known." What are the circumstances that call for this extra payment of pensions? Is the scale of pensions in this case the same as that provided in the case of overseas service, or is it the old scale that prevailed some years ago?

Mr. NICKLE:

The old scale.

Mr. REID:

Militia pensions generally are for all those in the militia engaged in active service, but not overseas. A great number of men' have been employed in guarding canals, elevators, railways, bridges, public buildings, and so on. Accidents are bound to occur among these men, and the pension list accordingly increases. These pensions are dealt with as they have been for some years, by the Militia Council on the old scale. I think that a return was brought down giving the information asked for by my hon. friend up to a certain date. The only information that it would be necessary for me to furnish in response to his request is that covering the period since the bringing down of that return.

Mr. OLIVER:

I do not insist upon that. Rut what I find strange is that in this home defence force there should be an increase in one year of $24,000 for pensions. The war has been going on for three years, and it is rather unaccountable that there should be a fourfold increase during the year.