Mr. CURRIE:

How many shares does the Government now hold of the total issue? There seems to be some confusion in regard to the matter. I should judge the Government holds nearly all of the shares.

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

It was necessary, inasmuch as the resolution was, in its nature, supplementary to the Bill of last session, to use the words "five-sixths" in phrasing the resolution. As a matter of fact, the Government of Canada have $92,600,000 par valpe of the total issue of the Canadian Northern Railway Company's shares. I cannot, at the moment, say what is the par value of the shares.

Mr. LEMIEUX:

I am glad my hon. friend (Mr. Richardson) added a rider to his statement that all the provinces were more or less caught in the net of Mackenzie and Mann. I am bound to protest. While it may be true that the province of British Columbia is committed to the extent of $79,000,000, I may say to my hon. friend that the province of Quebec is not caught in the net of Mackenzie and Mann for a ten-cent piece. That explains why we are not so anxious to become drawers of water and hewers of wood like the other provinces.

Mr. RICHARDSON:

You are going to pay your fair share just the same.

Mr. LEMIEUX:

I thought we had done away with these raids on the public treasury by Mackenzie and Mann. When the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance (Sir Thomas White) have to maintain at Washington a permanent residence from which they may go hat in hand to the United States Treasury to get aid for the Canadian treasury, when our people are being bled white and are bravely paying tavee to carry on this war, we should stand for no more demands from Mackenzie and Mann. Last

year we decided to take over the liabilities of Mackenzie and Mann under the express condition that we would take over the road. We have not got the road. The same management is in charge. It is still Mackenzie and Mann.

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

We have the road.

Mr. LEMIEUX:

The day after the Canadian Northern legislation was passed last year, Sir William Mackenzie stated in a public interview that after the investigation was finished he would get a hundred cents on the dollar for his stock. Have you, Sir, ever dreamed of such brazen audacity? The country is committed to the extent of nearly $600,000,000 for Mackenzie and Mann, and Mackenzie and Mann coolly, quietly appear before a commission appointed by the Government and claim value for a stock which has been declared valueless by another commission appointed by the Government. It is a scandal to see those men around Parliament again, in these days of strain and stress trying to bleed white the people of 'Canada. Aie we going to carry out the legislation of last session, legislation which was passed under compulsion much against the protests of His Majesty's loyal Opposition and of certain of the most able members of the Conservative party? I need not refer to Mr. R. B. Bennett, the former

4 p.m. member for Calgary, and my hon. friend, the present member for Kingston (Mr. Nickle) but I may say that, in Montreal, the gentlemen who constituted the backbone of the old Conservative party, protested most vehemently against that legislation. Be that as it may, that legislation has been passed. We have to assume the liabilities of the Canadian Northern- Railway system; but in the name of decency and common sense, we should not allow Mackenzie and Mann to exact from this country the millions of dollars, which they claim for a stock which has been declared valueless. Before we pass this legislation the Acting Minister ci Finance (Mr. A. K. Maclean) will be kind enough to give to the House and the country a list of those liabilities and the names of the holders of those liabilities, because many names are being paraded before the public as being the names of gentlemen who were very active in the conspiracy which took place last year and which gave birth to the Union Government. It is unfortunate that many of the provinces were caught in the net of Mackenzie and Mann, and I am -glad and proud that the so-called backward province

of Quebec is free from that net. It is even stated that, when the provincial statesmen arrived in a great hurry at the capital city of Ottawa during the meetings which took place preceding the formation of the Union Government, they were welcomed at the station-by whom? Not by the right hon. gentleman, but by Sir William Mackenzie himself. I say this Parliament of Canada should not be under the control of any railway magnate who pulls the strings from behind the scenes. For mjr part, I shall be very exacting on the second reading of the Bill. I want a list from the Acting Minister of Finance of all the liabilities and the names of the holders, whether corporations or individuals, so that I can scrutinize every item. The country is in no mood to-day, when we have just committed ourselves to an expenditure of five hundred million dollars to carry on the war, to stand for any more raids on the treasury by Mackenzie and Mann.

Mr. JOSEPH READ:

The province of Prince Edward Island, unfortunately, is in the same position as the province of Quebec with relation to this iniquitous agreement- I think I may use that word now-with Mackenzie and Mann. Our people have no interest whatever in the Mackenzie and Mann outfit. Their railway system may be of some benefit to the rest of Canada, but it is certainly of no benefit to the province of Prince Edward Island. When you realize that the purchase of this railroad is putting a debt of one hundred dollars on every child that is born in Prince Edward Island to-night, you can readily understand how our people feel about the action of the Government in drawing chestnuts out of the fire for these people and for the provinces that- were foolish enough to guarantee their bonds. The Acting Minister of Finance should give us the names of the people from whom the Government purchased five-sixths of the stock. He has told us that Mackenzie and Mann held most of it, but we want to know who held the balance, and also who holds the one-sixth of the stock now outstanding. Then we also want information as to the accrued interest. I' understand that the bonds are regarded as collateral security for the notes and, according to the Acting Minister of Finance, the interest is going to be increased on the renewals provided for by the proposed Act asked for. Will that increased interest be taken into consideration by the

arbitration now sitting in Toronto, as a set-off against the watered stock that we are asked to take over?

Mr. PAPINBAU:

On what date was the stock acquired?

Mr. J. D. REID:

I accepted it about the first day of last October.

Mr. CURRIE:

When was the annual meeting of the 'Canadian Northern railway held when the new directors were elected? Was it after October? .

Mr. J. D. REID:

There has not been any annual meeting since October.

Resolution reported and read the first time.

On the motion for the second reading of thg resolution:

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

That can be taken to-morrow. I think we should have the information that has been, asked for first.

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

I hope my right

hon. friend will not press his objection, as I desire to have the Bill printed.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

There is

nothing to prevent my hon. friend from having it printed now.

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

That may be quite true, but I do not see what advantage can be gained by postponing the introduction and first reading of the Bill.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

The only objection I have is that we want to have the information that has been asked for, in advance of the second reading of the Bill.

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

I have told my right hon. friend I propose doing that, but it is not likely that there can be very much further information to give, because I imagine that practically every bit of information available was given to Parliament about a year ago.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

If my hon. friend will say that he will give us all the information some day in advance of the second reading, I have no objection to his motion. Otherwise I shall raise my point of order.

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

What is the point of order?