May 22, 1918

CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.


On the Orders of the Day:


UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Hon. N. W. ROWELL (President of the Council):

The Prime Minister stated yesterday that an announcement would be made to-day with reference to the civil pay of civil servants serving overseas, and I now wish to read to the House the operative part of an Order in Council passed on the 21st of May dealing with this matter. The members of the House will recall that there are three classes into which the civil servants who are now serving with the military forces might be divided: Those who went overseas in the early part of the war received both their civil pay and their

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military pay. At a later day an Order in Council was passed providing that those who enlisted after that date should receive whichever pay was the larger of the two, civil or military, and then, when the Military Service Act came into operation, an Order in Council was passed providing that civil servants enlisting after that date would receive their military pay only. By the Order in Council of the 5th of April, 1918, those Orders in Council were all modified so as to provide that, after the date fixed in that Order in Council, civil servants would receive only their military pay. The present Order in Council repeals the last Order in Council and substitutes the following provisions:

1. The above mentioned Orders in Council- Those are, the first Order in Council which provided for both civil and military pay for those who enlisted in the earlier part of the war; the second Order in Council which provided for the larger pay of the two for those who enlisted subsequently, and the third Order in Council which provided simply for the military pay:

1. The above-mentioned Orders in Council shall continue to apply in respect of any person in the civil employment of the Government absent upon service with the forces of His Majesty or of any of His Miajesty's Allies and who

(a) is now serving in any theatre of actual war outside of the United Kingdom, so long as so serving, or

(b) is now or who may be hereafter in the United Kingdom and who has served1 in such theatre of actual war outside thereof and is there detained by reason of wounds or disease received or contracted in such service, so long as so detained, or

(c) is now or who may be hereafter in the United Kingdom and who has served in such theatre of actual war outside thereof and has suffered from wounds or disease received or contracted in such service and is undergoing preparation in a reserve battalion for return to said theatre of actual war, or

(d) is now in the United Kingdom and who has served in such theatre of actual war outside thereof for at least one year and has been brought back to the United Kingdom for military duty and is still required for military duty there.

2. A prisoner of war shall he deemed to be serving in a theatre of actual war outside of the United Kingdom and shall come within the provision of Clause (a) of section 1 of this Order.

3. All other persons in the civil employment of the Government absent upon service with the forces of His Majesty shall from and after the 15th day of-July, 1918, receive only military pay, anything in the above recited Orders in Council to the contrary notwithstanding.

4. Any person in the civil employment of the Government absent upon service with the forces of His Majesty, or any of His Majesty's Allies, shall be entitled upon the conclusion of the latter service, to be restored to his position

in the civil employment of the Government, if he remains qualified to discharge the duties appertaining to that position.

5. The Order in Council of April 5th, 1918, (P. C. 811) is hereby revoked and cancelled.

The net result of this Order in 'Council is to continue the existing Orders in Council in force in respect of all civil servants now serving in the forces of His Majesty or His Majesty's Allies except those in Canada and those in the United Kingdom who have not seen real service at the front.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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L LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Laurier Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Those who are at the front continue to receive their civil pay?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

Yes, and also those who have been wounded at the front and are in hospitals in Great Britain; those who have been wounded and have been discharged from hospital and are preparing to return to the front, and those who have served a year at the front and are now in the United Kingdom on military duty and are required to remain there.

. Sir SAM HUGHES: Is this a new Order in Council?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

Yes, repealing the one passed on the 5th of April.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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UNION

Samuel Hughes

Unionist

Sir SAM HUGHES:

I would suggest,

for various reasons, that the word " honourable " be placed before the word "wounds" in the Order in Council so that it will read " honourable wounds or disease."

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

How many men who enlisted with the direct promise of the Government that they would receive both their civil and their military pay will be affected by this Order in Council? How many will he deprived of their civil pay and how many will continue to receive both civil and military pay as was' promised them by the Government when they enlisted?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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UNION

Newton Wesley Rowell (President of the Privy Council)

Unionist

Mr. ROWELL:

I think about 1,500 enlisted and came under the operation of the first Order in Council entitling them to receive both civil and military pay. I should think that the great majority of these will, under this Order in Council, continue to receive both civil and military pay. If they do not, it is because they are serving in Canada or Great Britain and have not served at the front for a definite period. The order clearly covers all who have rendered real service at the front.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

That is not an answer to my question. Knowing the great care with which everything is done by the President of the Council, I want, to know how many

men will be affected by this order? It is the number that I want to get at.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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UNION

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Unionist

Mr. SPEAKER:

I remind the House

that we are on the Orders of the Day, I have allowed extreme latitude to hon. members in the putting of questions and even entering upon a discussion, owing to the fact that we are approaching the end of the session. But there is a limit to all things, and I ask hon. gentlemen not to widen the breach unduly.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

1 did not intend to infringe on the rules. It is only the shiftiness of the President of the Council, who refuses to .answer, that causes the insistence.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CIVIL PAY OF CIVIL SERVANTS ' OVERSEAS.
Permalink

THE ANTI-LOAFER LAW.


On the Orders of the Day: Mr. A. R. Ma.VfiASTKR (Broime): I desire to direct the attention of the Government to an abuse which is occurring in connection with one of the numerous Orders in Council-'that whereby the idle are to be impressed into work. It has come to my attention that in Montreal recently the police have been rounding up those idlers, and, among them, have taken in the net a number of returned soldiers who have only lately come back from the front. It would appear to be just that these men should not be regarded in that fashion; that if they have recently returned from the front they should be allowed to remain idle for a few weeks without subjecting themselves to the danger of being put in jail and herded with criminals and other undesirable idlers. Instructions might be given to those who are enforcing this Order in Council that soldiers recently returned from the front should be given a few weeks' grace, so to speak, in which to readjust themselves.


UNION

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Unionist

Hon. C. J. DOHERTY (Minister of Justice) :

It is regrettable if mistakes are made by those charged with the enforcement of this law, as of all laws generally, and if innocent persons, such as returned soldiers, are arrested. I may point out, however, that the enforcement of this law, as of all laws of that nature rests in the hands of provincial, and, through their delegated powers, of municipal authorities. If the police of Montreal are exercising any undue zeal or making mistakes of that kind, it is a matter to which the attention of those in authority over them might very well be called. I shall make inquiry, however, whether there does exist on the part of these gentlemen any such undue zeal, or whether any action has been taken by them that it would be proper to draw to the attention of those in authority over them.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   THE ANTI-LOAFER LAW.
Permalink

CANCELLATION OF SEPARATION ALLOWANCE AND ASSIGNED PAY.


On the Orders of the Day:


UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. H. B. MORPHY (North Perth):

I wish to direct the attention of the Minister of Militia to a matter of public importance respecting the policy of his department. A soldier overseas, on the complaint of his wife, who lives in this country, was charged with bigamy and was sentenced 'by the overseas authorities to two years' imprisonment. I wish to read a letter which his wife received from General J. H. Langton. -I am purposely omitting the names, hut I want to read the letter so that the minister will havei-

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CANCELLATION OF SEPARATION ALLOWANCE AND ASSIGNED PAY.
Permalink
UNION

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Unionist

Mr. SPEAKER:

If this is an individual case I would suggest that the hon. member send the letter to the Minister of Militia in the ordinary course and have the matter attended to in that way. No question of policy is involved?

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CANCELLATION OF SEPARATION ALLOWANCE AND ASSIGNED PAY.
Permalink
UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

With all due deference, I submit that an important question of policy is involved. The Government have cancelled the separation allowance and assigned pay of this woman and her children because her husband happened to make a mistake. If that is not a matter of public importance I do not know what is. I should like the Minister of Militia and Defence to make a note of it and let the woman have her pay and allowance.

Topic:   COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE-SUPPLY OF LABOUR.
Subtopic:   CANCELLATION OF SEPARATION ALLOWANCE AND ASSIGNED PAY.
Permalink

May 22, 1918