June 16, 1920

UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

I could not give the -average, but I -can give the officers' -pay: lieutenant-colonel, $8; major, $6.50; captain, $5.50; lieutenant, $4; paymaster, $4.75; quartermaster, $4.75; -medical officer, $4.75; chaplain, $6; warrant officer, $2.80; quartermaster sergeant, $2.75; staff sergeant-, $2.30; sergeant, $2; corporal, $1.70; -bugler, $1.50; bandsman, $1.50; private $1.40.

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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

Are there officers ranking above the rank of lieutenant-colonel?

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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

Not in the militia.

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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

What about officers who were overseas and attained the rank of full coloneil, or brigadier-general, or major-general, and "who have reverted to the militia?

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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

They retain the brevet

rank overseas, but in the militia the high est rank is lieutenant-colonel. They are entitled to the brevet rank they attained overseas.

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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

Is it the intention of the department to do what is done in France, I understand, namely, to reform the militia list; that is, to give back to each officer the rank to which he is entitled, reducing him in rank although he might have held a superior rank during the war? Is suich a process going to take place as regards our militia?

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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

That process has taken place in many cases. If a man got a higher rank in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, he is entitled to retain that rank on his brevet rank only. On going back to the militia he will revert to his former rank. That has occurred in the militia and also in the permanent force.

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UNION

Samuel Hughes

Unionist

Sir SAM HUGHES:

How would the

minister explain the position of an officer who had held the rank'of major at the front and who is now a sergeant in the permanent force?

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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

In the case put to me

by my hon. friend (Sir Sam Hughes) the man would have the right to elect whether he would revert to his former rank in the permanent force or whether he would retire on pension. If he had been ten years in the service he would be entitled to retire on pension; if he had been less than ten years in the service he would be entitled to retire and obtain a gratuity depending on his length of service.

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L LIB

William Duff

Laurier Liberal

Mr. DUFF:

Has the minister appointed any honorary colonels since he took charge of the department, and if so, how many?

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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

I have not been able to find a victim yet.

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L LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Laurier Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR (Guysborough):

I think the minister ought to agree now to reduce this item by at least $500,000. He has stated that he will very probably not need that extra half million. He has voted down the amendment moved by the leader of the Opposition, but according to his own statement the item could be reduced by half a million dollars. That should be done. It would be a step in the right direction. I feel some hesitation in giving this Government any more money than they require because I am not certain how they will use it. I was very much astonished this morning to find that a Bureau of Information is being conducted in this city, and that the money to pay for it is being taken out of the demobilization vote passed last year. I was also shocked to discover a few days ago that we are running a news agency in the city of New York, which it is estimated will cost $30,000 for the year, which amount is also being taken, by Order in Council, out of the demobilization vote of last year. I think therefore it is very unsafe to give to this Government any more money than is actually required, and I would appeal to the minister to agree to at least $500,000 of this amount being struck out without any motion being made to that effect.

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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

The minister said he

would not reduce this amount because he had been authorized by the Governor in Council to introduce a resolution for $1,500,000.

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UNION

Hugh Guthrie (Minister of Militia and Defence; Solicitor General of Canada)

Unionist

Mr. GUTHRIE:

I did not give that as a reason for not reducing the item.

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L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

The minister's contention would be sound if the proposal was to increase the item, but he is irerfeetly at liberty to reduce it, so his argument is no argument at all from the constitutional point of view, nor from the political point of view. Are we the representatives of the people?

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

No.

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L LIB
L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

I am gratified, Mr. Chairman, after having sat in Ottawa for four months 'this session, that we have at least convinced hon. gentlemen opposite that they are not the representatives of the people.

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L LIB
L LIB

Lucien Cannon

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CANNON:

We have their own admission on Hansard. If they do not represent the people, whom do they represent?

Mr. CAiSGRAIN: Themselves.

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June 16, 1920