April 25, 1922

CON
LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

If my hon. friend's

calculation is correct, that is right.

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

No doubt my hon. friend knows whether I am right or not; I make it $2,500,000. Now, in view of the very immediate success of this loan,

properly mirroring, as it does, the extreme high standing of this country and the large amount of idle money at present locked up in New York, is my hon. friend quite sure that he has not made this loan altogether too generous in favour of the American investor?

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

I shall be glad to discuss that question at a later stage, and particularly to place it in comparison with the commissions allowed on some loans placed by my hon. friend.

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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I think there is a novel provision in connection with this issue, under which any unfortunate subscriber who desires to live in Canada in the future is to be taxed, while the subscriber who stays in the United States is not to be taxed. I suppose this has nothing to do with any immigration policy that the Government contemplates.

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

My hon. friends opposite sometimes accuse us of following their example. It is a rather bad thing to do, because their example is not always a good one. In this case, however, the provision in that bond with respect to taxation is copied from an issue made by my hon. friend.

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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

But the issue made by us was in Canada.

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING:

I am referring to an issue made in the United States. However, if we are to talk seriously on this question, we cannot tax an American citizen in the United States; but if this bond at any time is held by a citizen in Canada, subject to the laws of Canada, it must pay the tax.

The House again in Committee of Supply, Mr. Gordon in the Chair:

Railways and Canals-salaries, $191,970 ; contingencies, $29,500.

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LIB

William Costello Kennedy (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Hon. W. C. KENNEDY (Essex, Minister of Railways and Canals) :

There is very little, if any, change as compared with last year. The vote is less and the number of employees fewer than was the case last year; but I may say, in justice to my predecessor, that this reduction was made before I took charge in January last. During the time I have been in office there have been no new appointments. There are two vacancies, one caused by death and the other by resignation. The increases in vote are statutory, and the change in the designation of certain em-

Supply-Railways

ployees is the result of the reclassification. When I took charge I told the deputy minister that I was anxious that we should have efficiency, first of all, but with that efficiency we should economize as far as possible. I believe that these estimates have been prepared with that end in view. As we proceed I shall be glad to give any explanations that may be required.

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CON

John Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Lanark):

There are four increases in salaries to the higher-paid officials of this department, three increases of $180 each and one of $300. As the minister says, these are statutory increases, but I desire to make an observation with reference to the salaries of the higher-paid officials. In the consideration of civil government estimates for some of the other departments, the opinion was expressed, from both groups on this side of the House, that, having regard to the general tendency towards deflation, the salaries of the higher-paid officials might very well be left on the basis of 1921. 'In connection with this department, in regard to which I have some little knowledge, I think that if the higher-paid officials had directed their unquestioned talents to private and corporate interests with the same devotion as they have applied themselves to the public service, they would be in receipt of very much larger salaries than are provided in these estimates. I entirely support the vote under consideration.

I have no intention of precipitating any general discussion on the railway situation under this vote, as I understand it to be the custom, under the civil government vote, to confine the discussion exclusively to matters of civil government, the general policy with regard to the railways being discussed on the general estimates. But I want to ask the minister a question which, I think, is pertinent, even at this time. The Toronto Globe has been for so long a time intimately associated with the Liberal party and its policies that, in Ontario at least, an editorial statement by that journal is taken as carrying almost the same force as an expression of government policy when the Liberal party is in power. I wish to refer to the leading editorial in the Globe of yesterday. That editorial, dealing with the question of the National Railways, contains two statements:

The Globe believes there are big enough men in the ranks of Canada's railway operators to carry the national system to success, and that Mr. Kennedy will discover and make use

of their talents. Some of them will doubtless be found in the service of the Canadian National and the Grand Trunk; some may even be drawn from the Canadian Pacific.

Further on it says:

In the end, perhaps, it may be found that there is room within the National System for the C.P.R. itself on terms that will be equitable alike to its shareholders and to the public.

The question I would ask the minister is, does the editorial in the Globe reflect the policy of the Government? Is the policy of the Government in accord with that editorial; or is that editorial intended as a feeler to test public opinion in reference to this important matter?

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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Essex) :

Like everyone else in the province of Ontario who reads the Globe, I pay considerable attention to its editorials, and I had the pleasure of reading the editorials in question. My hon. friend, as a former minister of this department, knows that the minister is also receiving suggestions as to what he should do in railway matters. The Globe, I suppose, has, like many other papers, kindly made suggestions. Beyond that I do not know anything about the editorial. I would say that it reflects simply the ideas of the editor. As to its reflecting the policy of the Government, I have no doubt that the Government will lay down its own policy when the right time comes.

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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

The right-of-way agent is Mr. Fraser, I believe. Is he confining his duties to the old National railways, or is he right-of-way agent for the whole system?

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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Essex) :

He is the departmental right-of-way agent and does work in the East that may be necessary for the department and for the railways also.

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CON

John Armstrong MacKelvie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacKELVIE:

My excuse for asking the minister a question which would more naturally be considered under the main estimates is that it would relieve considerable anxiety on the part of a number of my constituents if I could have some assurance from him that the pronouncement he made When [DOT]these estimates were last under discussion, that no new rails would be laid this year, is not, like the laws of Modes and Persians, entirely unchangeable. I have in mind, Sir, that road of which I have no doubt you have some knowledge-the branch line running from Kamloops to Kelowna through the Okanagan Valley. That road has been practically completed for two years so far as the grade is concerned, at an ex-

Supply-Militia

penditure of five million dollars, involving, of course, a very heavy annual charge for interest, while the depreciation on the roadbed at a conservative estimate must amount to 20 per cent per annum. Good and ample justification could be given for the completion of that line this summer in order that it may be ready to handle this season's fruit and vegetable crops. This road would be second to no other branch line as a feeder for the National railways, and the minister will, I am sure, agree that our National railway system stands very much in need of additional business. The latest figures I have available are for 1919, when from three stations in that district, Armstrong, Vernon, and Kelowna, 320 full cars of fruit and vegetables were shipped and 165,000 odd packages of express; in addition there were shipments of live stock, hay and other products. One section of that line passes through the Salmon river district in which lies probably the most valuable gypsum deposits in the world; they are practically one hundred per cent pure.

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?

Mr. CHAIRMAN@

Order. I would draw the attention of the hon. member to the fact that this subject hardly comes under "Civil Government."

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CON

John Armstrong MacKelvie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MacKELVIE:

I was going to crave the indulgence of yourself, Mr. Chairman, and the minister, for the reason I gave at the outset. I am deluged with telegrams and resolutions from the local Boards of Trade asking for an immediate response, and if the minister could give some assurance to allay their anxiety I should be much obliged. He has a reputation, well earned I am sure, of being a thorough business man.. For business reasons alone the outlay necessary to complete this line could be amply justified.

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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Essex) :

Like my hon. friend, I have had many representations in connection with this particular line. But may I say to him that his district is not alone in making representations for railway accommodation? From all parts of the West I have had similar representations of their transportation needs. The policy of the Government in respect to the laying of new lines this year is simply this: We felt that, the new board coming in, the responsibility for any capital expenditure should properly belong to that board, and that for the time being, until they have had an opportunity of ascertaining whether the expenditure would be warranted, we should not go on with any new

work. However, we are impressed with the necessity of doing something in the district my hon. friend has mentioned, and I can promise him that when the new board is appointed every consideration will be given to the matter.

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Item agreed to. Militia and Defence-Allowances, Active M-ilitia, $120,000.


LIB

George Newcombe Gordon (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN:

Shall the item carry? Carried.

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UFA

Alfred Speakman

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. SPEAKMAN:

Just a moment, Mr. Chairman. I think some of us heard the word "carried " before we got to the page. This is rather too important an item to be carried without any discussion whatever, and we would like a statement from the minister in reference to it.

Hon. GEORGE P. GRAHAM (Minister of Militia and Defence) : I hardly expected it to go through so rapidly as that.

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April 25, 1922