Mr. CALDWELL:

The minister says the reason he is cutting down this vote is lack of money, but I think the explanation is hardly fair, in view of the fact that he has increased some of the other items. If he had said he cut this out to switch money to some other purpose, we would be able to prove it by the very estimates themselves, but in view of the fact that the estimates are $14,000 more than last year, and that what I consider the most important item under this head is cut down, I feel it is a mistake to switch off from this work money that should be devoted to it, and add to some other branch of the service. I think this is the most important service under the Department of Agriculture. I sincerely

Supply-Health of Animals

hope, as the minister has suggested, that he may bring down a vote in the Supplementary Estimates and that he will continue this work on at least as large a scale as before.

With regard to the restricted area in Manitoba, it is just possible the atmosphere is so much drier in Manitoba than at Hull, that it would be a good plan to locate the restricted area in eastern Canada. I do not think he should locate it in Hull. It would be better in the Maritime provinces where we have a moist climate, but not similar to Hull, because the moisture comes from the ocean.

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

In discussing this with the staff and the gentleman from Manitoba, who probably in a practical way was the first to draw my attention to it, my first thought was to get some portion of Canada that had a distinct boundary line, so that we could operate within certain distinct boundaries, and Prince Edward Island was my first thought and Vancouver Island my second. We had no applications from either of those and no agitation for it, and as one of them does not like innovations very much anyway I was rather disposed to take-[DOT]

Mr. CALDWELL:

Which one?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I will leave it to my hon. friend to guess. I thought it was best to take it up with the Manitoba representatives who were ready and anxious to try it out. After all, if you suggest it to somebody else, you would not have them enter the work with the same enthusiasm as the province of Manitoba would, who are already anxious for it, have passed the necessary resolutions and have worked up public sentiment ready to go into it. However, when Canada's ship comes in probably, we will be able to take action elsewhere. I would like to see it tried in either of those places I have named, because then we would have a complete boundary line beyond which no contagion would escape.

Mr. WALLACE:

Has Manitoba contributed anything towards the cleaning up of this area?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

No.

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

I would like to

know whether the proposition to reduce the maximum compensation paid has had the effect of reducing the number of applications?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

No.

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Has it had any

effect at all?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

No, I do not think it had a particle of effect.

Mr. CALDWELL:

The minister stated

that the work is being nearly overtaken. Is he counting the applications that have come in that are not being considered to-day?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I might point out

that there is a certain amount of "hang over" yet that affected the work last year. I had to stop the taking on of new herds for want of necessary funds. We had to do the best we could with less money and endeavour to keep the work going. That is one reason why we are not taking on the Manitoba works further. That can be done cheaper in the winter time. We have just recently assembled our men there at a time when the farmers will be free to give the necessary assistance.

Mr. CALDWELL:

If the department is

not free to take on any more accredited herds what was the use of issuing the pamphlet a copy of which I hold in my hand? ,

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

We are taking them up now.

Mr. CALDWELL:

But you are not testing the herds, and do not intend to do so.

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I do not think

that is fair.

Mr. CALDWELL:

.1 do not want to say anything that is unfair, I want to get at the real purpose behind this. For instance here is a pamphlet which has been distributed instructing people how to proceed to get their cattle tested. In this pamphlet this question and answer appear:

Q. But I can get help if I want a test?

A. Certainly.

Then this question and answer appear:

Q. What is the minimum of animals that will be accepted?

A. Ten pure-bred animals, one a pure-bred herd sire.

Now the minister is telling us that he is not taking on any applications with the intention of testing them this year.

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

We have got to do one of two things. We were $50,000 short of our expected revenue and, when our expected legislation did not go through last session, that was tantamount to requiring $50,000 more to do a given amount of work. We are taking on the applications as they come to us with the intimation, as I 'have already stated to the House, that our men will devote their time to certain examinations and work in Manitoba for the balance of the fiscal year. Then, as soon as the new vote is available we will go on with our examination of the new accredited herds. That is exactly the same policy that we pursued last year.

Supply-Health of Animals

Mr. CALDWELL:

Mr. HARRIS:

I am sorry that the minister did not explain this vote a little more fully as to one matter which concerns a big industry in the Dominion of Canada, and that is the raising and feeding of hogs. Last year in discussing this particular estimate we had b.efore us the case of one man upon whom we thought the operation of the act had wrought injustice

a man by the name of Alderson. In discussing that case the minister said in part:

Sometimes justice falls short. We have known innocent men to be hanged, and we may expect a similar fatality to be meted out sometimes to a hog.

Now the minister has had the opportunity of looking into the records of the department and perhaps cin give us some more information in regard to this particular issue. Of course, if he does not, we will all try our level best to remember this little passage and perhaps we can read into it that a similar fate may be meted out to a certain political party. I would like the minister to tell us frankly if he feels that in reviewing any of these issues,

justice has in any way fallen short. At the time referred to there was considerable discussion regarding the feeding of garbage to swine, and the minister had in mind, I think, that perhaps the garbage which was not properly cooked by steam process might be cooked perhaps by direct heat in larger kettles. Those were the words he used as will be found by reference to page 1029 of last year's Hansard. He said, on the occasion referred to:

The only change that has been contemplated at all has been the substitution of larger kettles for cooking garbage, so as to avoid the necessity of procuring more expensive boilers.

I would like, before this vote passes, that this minister would be good enough to give me some information on this matter.