Mr. STEVENS:

I understand the minister has some information to give the House after long and deliberate reconsideration of his rather precipitate action in the first place. I heard with a good deal of satisfaction that he had indeed made some modification, some change, in his intention. Without going further into any criticism I would like to hear what the minister has to offer on the subject.

Hon. CHARLES STEWART (Argenteuil) (Acting Minister of Immigration):

Mr. Chairman, there are two items still to be passed in the estimates for immigration, one dealing with immigration contingencies. I take it that my hon. friend does not desire that we should cover any old ground in connection with the matter but that the information should deal with this item.

Mr. STEVENS:

I was hoping and expecting for some decidedly new ground.

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

I do not know how' I could introduce any new ground. The estimates themselves are before the committee, and I shall give explanations as to this particular item. I may say that in the matter of publicity in Great Britain we have increased our expenditure from $77,000 to $303,000, and in the United States from $245,000 to $372,000. I propose to give an explanation of these items. For newspaper advertising in Great Britain we expended in the ten months of last year for which we have returns the sum of $5,302.62. We propose to spend this year $60,000. On pamphlets, booklets, maps, etc., we spent $58,000 for the ten months, and we propose spending $172,000 this year. We are increasing our expenditure for lectures and attendance at shows from $8,000 to $50,000, and our expenditure on exhibition motor cars from $4,000 to $15,000. The department has had one motor car going about with exhibits of Canadian products from town to town, accompanied by lecturers. The

results that we have received from this form of advertising have been so good that we intend to equip and put another car on this work.

Mr. TOLMIE:

How much of the appropriation is for the British Empire Exhibition?

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

No part of this appropriation is for the British Empire Exhibition.

Mr. TOLMIE:

There will be a special vote for that?

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

Yes, a special vote. The remuneration to journalists and special writers last year was $1,281. The expenditure proposed for the same purpose this year will be $6,000, making a total expenditure for these various purposes of $303,000.

We spent on newspaper advertising in the United States in eleven months of last year the sqm of $125,447. We propose to spend $200,000 this year. On advertising pamphlets and booklets we spent $100,000 in eleven months of last year; this year we intend to spend $155,000. The expenditure on publicity bureau and special writers in eleven months of last year was $19,124. We intend to spend $17,000 for the same purpose making a total of $372,000 for these different purposes in the United States. For the getting out of sundry publications, to be mailed out of Canada but to be printed in this country, we spent in eleven months of last year $3,000; we intend to spend $10,000 this year. For the preparation of motion pictures and photographs for publicity purposes we spent $2,000 in eleven months of last year; we will spend $20,000 for that purpose this year. Office and travelling expenses at Ottawa and Winnipeg for the ten months of last year involved an expenditure of $3,926.89. We have appropriated $7,500 for that purpose this year. Special writers, for eleven months, $1,470; we propose to spend $4,000 this year. Newspaper advertising in Canada, required $374 last year; this year we will spend $5,000. On foreign and continental work we will spend $35,000. This is practically all new work; we had no vote for that purpose last year. This year we propose to spend $20,000 on pamphlets and booklets, and for publicity purposes in northern Europe, other than literature, $15,000. For newspaper subscriptions-these are newspapers sent out to our immigration agents-we propose to spend $3,000, and incidentals unforeseen $3,500, making a total publicity expenditure of $760,000 all told.

There is an item of $25,000 for general printing done by the King's Printer for the service outside of Ottawa. This is to provide for the

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printing of books, manifests, cards, indexes, forms, letterheads and questionnaires for the use of the various immigration agencies and detention hospitals, immigration halls and boundary inspection halls at points all over Canada. The expenditure in 1921-22, was $21,600, and for the eleven months ending February 26, 1923, $9,860.

Then there are some customs inspectors who are paid out of this vote who perform in-spectional duties at the boundary. They are paid by the Immigration department, and the payments range from $50 to $300 per annum. These inspectors are at various places along the northern boundary where there is very little traffic over the line, and consequently receive a small remuneration from the Immigration department. Others are at points where there is heavier traffic, and receive a better salary. There are only two men on the paylist receiving $300 per annum. The majority receive $100, and quite a few $200 per annum. I have a list of the names of the custom house officers who perform these services. For general stationery supplied by the King's Printer for the service outside of Ottawa there is an item of $10,000. This item is to provide for the general stationery and supplies required at the various agencies, seaport offices, detention halls and boundary inspection offices, supplies consisting of typewriting machines, writing paper, envelopes, pens, pencils, fasteners, ink, travelling bags, etc. The item of contingencies and miscellaneous expenses in Canada, including salaries of temporary employees, amounts to $140,000. The largest portion of this item is to provide for the salaries of temporary clerks at Ottawa, stenographers, inspectors, guards, matrons, labourers and charwomen, at our various agencies, offices and boundary inspection points outside of Ottawa. For the salaries of the 110 customs officers I have mentioned and

4 pirn, immigration inspectors along the line between Canada and the United States we paid from $50 to $300 per annum for extra service. I am reading the same item as I read a moment ago in respect to the customs officers. My memorandum with regard to this item reads:

It provides also for the travelling expenses of investigating officers, for legal expenses in connection with the rejection of immigrants and other miscellaneous and incidental expenses, not chargeable to any specific service.

We spent on this service $125,000, and we are asking for an increase of $15,000 making $140,000.

Postage, telegrams, cablegrams, telephone express and freight charges in Canada, $25,000. This is to meet the cost of postage on parcels and letters addressed to

[Mr. C. A. Stewart.

points outside of Canada; for cablegrams, telegrams, long distance telephone tolls, freight and express charges on books, manifests, forms, stationery supplies, immigration literature and maps, etc., shipped to points in Canada and outside of Canada.

Inspection of British immigrant children, $15,000.

This is to provide for the cost of inspection of children emigrating to Canada under the auspices of the various homes and societies in the British Isles, these children being placed in Canadian farmers' homes. The cost of the first inspection is borne by the Canadian government and the cost of all recurrent inspections until the child has attained the age of 16 is recovered by the department from the British government.

There is a little change in this connection this year inasmuch as we are voting a sum of $200,000 which will be a grant for the purpose of paying the passages of these children. Formerly the British government contributed to some extent towards the cost of this expenditure, but their contribution will now cease, and we will have to bear the expenditure ourselves.

Mr. MANION:

What arrangements are made for the children on this side of the water?

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

So far we are utilizing the various organizations that have been engaged in this work. I gave a list of them when the vote was going through. In most cases though not in all, they have foster homes already located for those children. We are making inquiry as best we can, and as soon as possible after the child is settled we will make an inspection to ascertain the desirability of the home and what success is being made with the settlement of the child in the particular home.

Mr. MANION:

You continue making inspection from time to time in this connection?

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

Yes, if possible, twice a year.

Mr. GOULD:

The minister spoke of

special writers. What jurisdiction or supervision does the department exercise over these special writers?

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

They are people who write special articles for advertising purposes which must pass the officer of the department who is in charge of publicity, Mr. Stead. They are all scrutinized before being sent out. We pay for those articles because they are written attractively, with a view of bringing settlement to the country.

Mr. GOULD:

The reason I asked the question is that I would suppose that the articles are based on facts and figures supplied by the Department of Agriculture. Is that the basis upon which the articles are written?

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Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

The articles may be the experience of the writer

himself not of necessity based on

facts furnished by the department, because very frequently these articles are made very attractive for the purpose of publicity. Hon. members will notice that this amount was included in the publicity vote. The next item is:

Seaport agencies and detention hospitals and halls expenses, $85,000. This is to cover the cost of administration and maintenance of agencies and offices at the various seaports: St. John, Halifax, Quebec, Montreal, Vancouver, Victoria, New York, Boston. It also provides for the equipment, administration and maintenance of immigration detention hospitals and halls at St. John, Halifax,. Quebec, Montreal, Vancouver and Victoria. The above expenses consist of cost of uniforms, telegrams, cablegrams, telephones, freight and express charges, wages of cleaners; travelling expenses of officers attached to these agencies; laundry, charwomen for the cost of board of immigrants temporarily detained for medical observation on account of minor contagious diseases, etc.

So far as detention while under medical inspection is concerned most of these charges are recovered, because in nine cases out of ten it is the fault of the medical officer on board the ship that proper inspection had not taken place prior to embarkation, and in every case in which that occurs the steamship companies are required to pay the cost while the patients are detained for medical attention in those hospitals, or until such time as they return to the country from which they came. This amount is about the same as we have had in former years. The memorandum continues:

In land agencies and maintenance of immigration halls in the West, $20,000.

This item is to provide for the expenses of our various inland agencies throughout Canada, and for the maintenance of immigration halls at certain points in the. West, and especially at our agency at Winnipeg. These expenses consist of cost of uniform, telegrams, telephones, freight and express charges, wages of cleaners, food for deports and immigrants temporarily detained in the immigration buildings, laundry, pillows, blankets, and other expenses necessary for general upkeep and maintenance.

The expenditure for 1921-22 was $12,696 and for the

eleven months ending February 28, 1923, $12,485.

Deportation expenses amount to $50,000. This is to cover the travelling expenses of the deportation officers, the cost of uniforms, and meals for deports on train, rail and steamship fares, in cases where the railroad and steamship companies are not liable for free transportation. The increase is due to the fact that by agreement with the Department of Health aliens convicted under the Opium and Narcotic Drug Act and ordered to be deported have to be handled by this department under the provisions of the Immigration Act. Up to last year it was not the duty of the Immigration department to do this work but now

all persons convicted under the Narcotic Drug Act and who are to be deported are handed over to the officers of this department. Frankly, I sometimes think that this is rather the duty of the Dominion police than of the Immigration department. However, for the time being we are performing this service.

The next item is $50,000 for boundary inspection expenses. It is to provide for the cost of uniforms of boundary inspection officers- as well as to pay for meals, lodging and travelling expenses, for relieving inspectors and for overtime on Sundays and statutory holidays. It also provides for the incidental upkeep of offices on the boundary line between. the United States and Canada. In 1921-22, we spent $42,785.06 and for the eleven months ending February 28, 1923, we expended $51,955.62. We therefore expect to get along with a little less this year than we did last year.

For contingencies and general expenses ir the United States the vote is $180,000. This item is to provide for the expenses of nineteen agencies maintained and operated in the United States. These expenses consist of rent of offices, furniture, typewriting machines, postage, telegrams, telephone messages, freight, express charges, light and fuel, stationery supplies, printing envelopes, cards and letterheads, and temporary assistance, and to provide for the salaries of fifteen new field men. The expenses in connection with this field work are estimated to be in the neighbourhood of $50,000 for the year. I have some doubt as to two items here, this and the next one. When the items were inserted I did not know what difficulties would be encountered in the appointment of these agencies. What I intended to do was to revive the old system of getting farmers who had been successful in Canada to go to the United States and Great Britain and lecture during the winter months, but our Civil Service Act makes it somewhat difficult to carry out appointments of this kind. They would not be permanent, and you could scarcely call them temporary. So that there is considerable difficulty in making such appointments, and I intend to cut down the amount in connection with this work so that we shall need only three or four lecturers to go to the Old Country; and I shall abandon my intention of sending any to the United States.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

Would it not be difficult to get farmers who are successful to go abroad?

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

Not at all, any number of them. We are asking for

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$50,000 for field work in the United States, and $75,000 for Great Britain.

Then there is an item for contingencies and general expenses on the continent. This is to provide for expenses to be incurred in connection with equipment and maintenance of seven or eight officers in Europe to vise passports and see to the inspection of immigrants coming to Canada. The expenses will include rent, furniture, fuel, light, taxes, uniforms, inspection, freight and ^express charges, postage, telegrams, cablegrams, telephone service, salaries of temporary employees, typewriting .machines, stationery and supplies, books, letterheads, travelling expenses, etc. I might say that this is entirely a new service which is being carried on on the continent of Europe. We have offices located at Antwerp and Warsaw, and we hope to be established in Prague. Our officers will travel to three or four other points to make inspections of people embarking on steamships and to advise them as to whether or not they are likely to be accepted in Canada on inspection. We do not, of course, guarantee that they shall be permitted to land, but we see to it that they shall have a fair idea ns to whether or not they will be admitted. We are rapidly getting past the point where we find it necessary to reject people on account of the occupational test. Indeed, that difficulty no longer exists in regard to the northern countries of Europe, and not at -all so far as Great Britain and the United States are concerned. This work is intended to apply only to people on the continent of Europe outside of the territory I have mentioned. We shall admit from the continent only domestic servants, farm labourers and those who can engage in farming; in other words, those who can buy farm lands. Our object is to obviate what has occurred in the past and has caused a great deal of hardship to people who upon landing at St. John, Quebec, or any of the other ports of Canada, find that they are not permitted to enter the country. I am told that on one occasion there were as many as 2,000 persons kept in detention and sent back to the country of their origin because they could not be permitted to land under the regulations. Last year, on the other hand, we never had at any one time more than five, and I hope that that condition will continue. This vote of $100,000 is an entirely new one and is experimental; and if we find that it is not warranted, then, of course, we shall withdraw the officers. I do think, however, that it will be of great advantage in preventing people from coming to Canada who have

no chance of getting in. Such people might otherwise be unable to obtain adequate information regarding the conditions and the regulations, and we shall at least see that they do not make an unnecessary trip across the ocean.

The next vote is also a new one. It is one which I dealt with when speaking to the House on a previous occasion. It is to provide for the work of repatriating Canadians who left eastern Canada particularly. We have not been active in the eastern field, having had agencies only at BostQn and Manchester. We are asking for a vote of $20,000 for the purpose of repatriating those Canadians who have left eastern Canada, as we think a useful work could be done in endeavouring to bring these people back into this country. This is to provide for the salaries and travelling expenses of colonization agents and to meet the necessary expenditures involved in connection with the work of bringing back into Canada those people who have gone abroad, especially French-Canadians. The expenses consist chiefly in travelling and living expenses of those engaged in this undertaking, and also provides for halls for lecture purposes, etc. It is intended to make a special effort in this field during the year 1923-24. The next item relates to the Women's Immigration Division. We are asking for $15,000 to provide for the expenses of conductresses on trains of parties of girls coming to Canada to engage in domestic service, and also to pay for salaries and uniforms for these women officers and to provide grants for women's hostels maintained in the principal cities in Canada, for temporary assistance and welfare of immigrant women, and for a per diem allowance of $1.50 to these free hostels for accommodation accorded by them to women immigrants coming into Canada to engage in domestic service, such free accommodation not to extend in any case over more than forty-eight hours; also for travelling expenses of women officers and of ladies attending the annual reunion or convention of the Canadian Council of Immigration. Then we have grants to immigration or colonization societies. We propose to increase the grant to the Salvation Army by $10,000, as they intend extending their work very materially in connection with domestic servants. To the Scottish Aid Society we are maldng a grant of $5,000. This is a new organization working in the north of Scotland, headed by the Reverend Father Macdonald, and supported by such prominent men as Mr. Burns and Mr. McBrien. Father Macdonald has been actively engaged in this work for a

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number of years. To the Union Nationale Franeais we are continuing the grant of $1,000. Therefore I am asking for $4,000 in this connection that is not allocated and for $100,000 for the Canada Colonization Association.

Mr. STEVENS:

Will the minister be good enough to let us have any more information than he may have on that particular subject?