April 27, 1923

CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

It may be that to-day we shall learn that the minister only made that statement for the purpose of turning a comer and that the figures as to exports which I gave are right-that there was an import of only 11,000,000 from France of silks and the manufactures of silks as against $3,000,000 in the case of Switzerland and $4,000,000 in the case of Japan. That was the gravamen of the charge that I made. Perhaps the minister will say to-day " I was not referring to the real business at all. All I was referring to was a quoted rate as to the duty that had nothing to do with it." There would have been something in what the minister said as to specific rates of duty if there was one specific rate for France and another specific rate for Switzerland. But that is not the fact; they all take the same rates. The one matter that

I was referring most to was the fact that France's exports to us under that item, were only one-third of Switzerland's and only one-fourth of Japan's.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

The trouble arises out of the fact that my hon. friend was speaking of one thing and I was speaking of another. I was not speaking at all of the proportion of silk exported from France as compared with the exports of Japan or Switzerland. My hon. friend has only to take Hansard and read my remarks as to that. I stated that my hon. friend, in discussing item 851 concerning silks, said that we had reduced the duty to a fixed rate of twenty per cent, and I said that he was ten per cent right and ninety per cent wrong, for the reason that only ten per cent of the silks imported into Canada come under that provision for a reduction of twenty per cent, the balance, ninety per cent of silks imported into Canada, remaining at 27^ per cent, less the ten per cent provided for in schedule B. That is where my hon. friend was making a mistake, according to the figures which had been given me by the Finance department. I was not referring- to Japan or Switzerland in any way whatever.

Sir HEN R"i DRAYTON: All my hon. friend

was doing, was putting up a straw man in order to knock him down.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

No, I was knocking the hon. member down.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

There was never any complaint by me or anybody else, having regard to that part of the discussion, as to a particular percentage here or a particular percentage there; the point was this-and my hon. friend knows it perfectly well-that there were reductions made-

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

Do not talk so loudly;

it does not frighten us.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

No. The hon.

member does not care, I know he does not care.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

No, I have the habit.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

But the point was that reductions were being made in the tariff for the assumed purpose, for the advertised purpose, of helping France, and I pointed out, that similar reductions are made to Switzerland and Japan. Is that true, or not?

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

What my hon. friend was contending in his main speech, and what I objected to, was that the reduction was only on luxuries; he instanced silk, and said that we had reduced the fixed duty to 10 per cent.

French Treaty

I told him that it was only on ten per cent of the silk imported into Canada that that duty applied, and I still maintain that.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

The minister does not answer my question. He comes back to the same matter. I will read what I stated:

I wonder whether my hon. friends realJy realize what the treaty does, and what further excuses we are going to have for letting in this large amount of articles which can be described only as luxuries, under such circumstances as indicate that the contention that this treaty is for France is very largely absolutely wrong. '

I was pointing out that this was not a treaty for the benefit of France. That was the argument I sought to elaborate. I pointed out the different articles of commerce which other countries ship to us to a greater extent than France, and I said these other countries got the same concessions as were given to France. That is the point I was talking about, and I am going to ask the minister: Is it true that all the countries that were mentioned-take for example, silks in the first instance sent to Switzerland and Japan-got under this treaty exactly the same concessions that France got?

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

My hon. friend wanted to clear the ground as to the subject of discussion and difficulty between himself and myself. Here is the point of difficulty. In his speech, at page 2008 of Hansard, my hon. friend said:

However let us proceed. Let us take item 581, silk fabric. This is something that is pre-eminently in the class of luxuries and there is a fixed duty of 20 per cent against the intermediate tariff of 27} per cent.

That is what I was telling him. I told him there was only ten per cent of the silk imported into Canada coming under item 581 with a fixed reduction of 20 per cent. That was the point of discussion between us. The other features in regard to Switzerland and Japan I did not touch.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRA DRAYTON:

I do not know why the minister referred to it at all, because that is all I was trying to get at.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

I wanted to remain at peace with my hon. friend.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

It was the minister's turn yesterday and he did well yesterday-splendidly. Will he tell me, does

Switzerland, and does Japan, get exactly the same benefit under this treaty as France obtains?

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

Yes.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I am going to ask him again in regard to my figures: Is it

144J

true, as shown by the reports of the statistical department, that in one year Japan sold us in silks and the manufacture of silk $1,006,000 worth of goods?

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

I have no doubt it is true, when the hon. member says so.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I do not want it put in that way.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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LIB

Ernest Lapointe (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE:

I have not the figures which the hon. member has, but that is not the point of discussion between us.

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I understand the minister does not dispute the fact. And that of the same article Switzerland sold us $3,970,706? Does he dispute that?

Topic:   FRENCH TREATY
Subtopic:   BILL TO RATIFY CONVENTION CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE
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April 27, 1923