June 20, 1923

PRO

Robert Alexander Hoey

Progressive

Mr. HOEY:

What objection would the minister have to not bringing this legislation into force until the two governments entered into an agreement and ask that it be done?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

The letter my right hon. friend read points out that the existing legislation only comes into effect by proclamation.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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PRO

Robert Alexander Hoey

Progressive

Mr. HOEY:

But not at the request of the provinces concerned.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

At any rate the Prime Minister has placed this government on record as being agreeable to that method of dealing with this question.

Hon. H. H. STEVENS (Vancouver Centre)

I hesitate very much to have anything to say in this matter, but knowing the very deep interest that my right hon. leader has taken and the very important part he has played in it from its inception, I feel that I should make one more appeal to the Minister of Justice, and to state as briefly as I can a few reasons why I think this legislation should be laid over. In the first place I should like to say this: If the House wanted an argument for the staying of this legislation I think they would find it in the remarks of the Minister of the Interior. I am not saying that with any desire to reflect on him, but his presentation of the problem-indicating the complexity of it, the differences between these two provincial governments and the somewhat stubborn attitude of the Premier of Ontario-would demonstrate, to my mind at least, that it was desirable for this government to retain control of the situation until something like a better spirit of agreement obtains between the two governments. For instance, my hon. friend said a moment ago that he was quite prepared to protect the interests of Manitoba, which are admittedly very vital interests to that province; I think the House, perhaps, ought to give very careful thought to that-Manitoba's vital interests. My hon. friend says that he is quite prepared to protect Manitoba's interests, but how can he, or this government, protect Manitoba's interests with any effect by the

repeal of this clause which was passed by this parliament after previously trying without it to compose the situation and finding on the authority of their experts and advisers that the situation was untenable as far as administration is concerned? Let me repeat that question, perhaps I did not make it very clear: In the early stages of this dispute this government endeavoured to compose the differences between the two provinces and on the report of their advisers and experts, they found they could not do so, because they could not make anything they did effective; and in order to make their decisions effective they had to pass this legislation declaring the works to be works for the general advantage of Canada. My hon. friend now says that in order to get together the two provinces that are estranged we should withdraw from the legislation that was found very necessary two years ago in order to make the federal influence effective.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

Does my

hon. friend know that any advance has been made since the passing of that legislation?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Yes, I would say this is clear to me-and I speak with some hesitancy and perhaps with a certain apology to the House for trespassing-it is clear to me that a very distinct advance was made in this agreement which was made last fall. My hon. friend said it was a few days ago but it was in November if I am correct, and the minister will tell me if I am wrong-it was in November, eight months ago, that this agreement was entered into, and yet Ontario has failed to live up to its terms, and we find Manitoba coming back now feeling actually alarmed that the agreement into which it had entered was not only not being observed but there was not even an attempt to observe it in all its terms. Now, that is a condition which, to my mind, not only justifies this government but makes it imperative for them to retain control of. the situation until that condition is thoroughly cleared up. Now, another point-

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

I do not wish to interrupt my hon. friend-my object is to have the situation clarified and put clearly before the House-but the Minister of Justice read the first paragraph of that agreement, and I thought I made it clear to the committee that that was the rock which caused all the difficulty. With that paragraph in, we were able to get that agreement.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

I wish to speak on that later on. My hon. friend points out that the two governments had been working on this

Lake oj the Woods Regulation

thing and had more or less failed, and he suggests virtually, though he does not say it in so many words, that the control of the situatioi should be turned over to Ontario. In other words, coming to my hon. friend's last question, the province of Ontario all through these negotiations from 1920-I remember it from the first discussion in the House-down to a week or two ago have taken the stand that they will do nothing until this clause is repealed.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

Yes that is right.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

He says he wants to stand between the two governments, but he says to Manitoba, "No matter what your rights may be or how much you are injured, no matter what attitude Ontario may take towards you, we insist that you agree to Ontario's stand in this regard." That is not a reasonable position. My idea of the situation is that the Canadian government ought to take a very distinct stand, and say; No we will remain in control of the situation as an independent party.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Lomer Gouin (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Sir LOMER GOUIN:

That is what we do.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

But you are giving that away virtually.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Lomer Gouin (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Liberal

Sir LOMER GOUIN:

No.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

You are saying, "We are retaining the power to bring this into operi-tion by order in council." Let me ask the hon. member-and this is really my appeal to him-if the condition of things is such that it is not necessary to pass this act now, in the final form, why not let it wait un.-these two goverments can compose their differences? [DOT]

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

I am sorry I did not make that clear. All this legislation between the two governments and what we purpose now is contingent upon certain things being done, and when they are done the legislation goes into effect. If the bill passes this House to-night, and th>

Governor in Council never makes the declaration, it will never come into effect.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
Permalink
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

Why take the power?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

Simply tc. get a vexed question settled.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
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CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

I do not think the minister will settle it, because he tells us that Ontario will consent to nothing until this proclamation is made, or the act repealed. Manitoba comes along and says, "We are alarmed at having our interests subject to the caprice of On-

tario, and we must realize that once this thing is out of the way, if there is a dispute between the two, Ontario is in control of the situation, and naturally will legislate in its own interests, and we cannot expect it to do otherwise."

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
Permalink
LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Argenteuil):

How will

Ontario be in control until this government takes the final step and asks for the proclamation of the repeal of this act?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
Permalink
CON

Henry Herbert Stevens

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEVENS:

I admit that.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS ONTARIO ELECTIONS AND PETAWAWA CAMP
Subtopic:   LAKE OF THE WOODS REGULATION
Permalink

June 20, 1923