Mr. CAHILL:

If the rules of this House

are carried out and the committee continues until 11 o'clock, and if no other member will take the floor between now and that hour I will attempt to occupy the time until then rather than submit to having this vote carried over my head. It is a wrong vote and never should have been authorized by the parliament of Canada. There never was any authority from the people of Canada to vote $50,000 to the subsidized press. There was never any authority for it from any government, let alone a Liberal government. I fought this matter when I was in opposition. I fought it in the country during my election, just as I have fought other things in my life, and I say it is not a Liberal principle. I want to tell the Prime Minister and the Finance Minister that Canada cannot afford to spend $50,000 of the people's money to subsidize the press, or to prostitute the news. This vote will defeat this government as it would defeat any government. We have voted many million dollars to-night, and every member of this government has attempted to justify the different expenditures; but not one has attempted to justify this expenditure. I ask the leader of the Government to try and justify this vote which is designed to prostitute the press of Canada. Can any minister defend it?

Mr. FIELDING:

Mr. CAHILL:

Who made the demand on the government for this grant?

Mr. FIELDING:

I have not seen any human being on the subject. I am speaking from my knowledge of the public service.

Mr. SHAW:

Would the minister be good enough to answer the request which I addressed to the Prime Minister, that is, whether or not the government will attach a string to this grant to see that the benefit of it accrues as far as possible to the Canadian National Railways?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I did not mean not to reply to my hon. friend. The government is not in a position to know at the present time what contracts the Canadian press

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has entered into for its communications. I cannot say at the moment whether my hon. friend's view is right or wrong that the Canadian press send their despatches over the Canadian Pacific line. I imagine that any arrangements they would have would be arrangements that would bind throughout the year. Under the circumstances I do not think the government would be justified in adopting the particular condition which my hon. friend suggests. Three months of the year have already gone by during which the Canadian press have had reason to believe that parliament would vote this amount. This js simply an obligation, perhaps not the most urgent in the world, but nevertheless one which the government should respect and having regard to the sum in the estimates, I think we should vote it at least for the present year.

Mr. SHAW:

If there is any obligation, certainly the government must meet its obligations. But as regards the Canadian National Railways receiving fair consideration, I would like the assurance of the minister that that would be taken into consideration now, and if the grant is continued next year that due consideration will be given.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I have intimated that it is the intention of the government to discontinue this grant at the end of the year, not to renew it.

Mr. CAHILL:

What is the information of this government with regard to this vote? When did it originate? I understand in 1917 there was a vote of $7,000 or $8,000 for the overseas service. In 1917, when many of us had to suffer in this country, my hon. friends who are now occupying the opposition benches voted $50,000 to the Canadian press. Eor what purpose? For the pure purpose of propaganda, against whom? Against the Liberal party and against the people of Quebec, against my province. There is no justification for this vote in past history. There never has been any justification for a vote of $50,000 of the money of the people of this Dominion to the Canadian press. It was promoted by the Union government in 1917 and they could, not justify the vote. I opposed it in 1917 and I have opposed it ever since. It has been proposed in this parliament from that time to this, and I think the government are making a great mistake to-day in again proposing it. They say that the vote has been going on for a few years. Is that any justification for the vote? Should the government not treat every estimate that comes before them on its merits? Should they not take the vote when it comes before them as a business proposition? No, they say that [Mr. Mackenzie King.l

this vote has been in the estimates for the last five, six or seven years, and they propose to pass it now because it has been in the estimates in the past. Who is asking for this vote? The government do not propose to tell me. They do not know who is asking for it. This vote of $50,000 for the Canadian press is being proposed without any justification on the part of the government. The Liberal party of Canada a few months ago asked the Canadian press for a franchise for a Liberal paper at Ottawa and they waved their hand at the Liberal party and said: "No, we do not propose to grant you a franchise; we are a law unto ourselves." They did not grant that franchise. It was intimated, I understand, to the Canadian press that this appropriation of $50,000 might not be voted, but they said: "Oh, I guess it will; it is all right: we will leave it at that." The $50,000 item was not proposed in the main estimates, but it came in the supplementaries.

Mr. MACKENIZE KING:

I beg my hon. friend's pardon. It is in the Main Estimates.

Mr. CAHILL:

It is in the Main Estimates, but it was not proposed before now.

Mr. MACKENIZE KING:

It has been in the Main Estimates before the House.

The CHAIRMAN:

This is two-thirds of $8,000 and two thirds of $50,000.

Mr. CAHILL:

The Chairman of this committee should know better than to quibble about calling an item-

The CHAIRMAN:

This item was called by me in the House one evening and was asked to stand.

Mr. CAHILL:

This item was called for one-twelfth or one-sixth of the amount. It is well understood in this House that a proportion of a vote is not considered as a vote of the estimate. I told the leader of the Government that this was bad legislation and that I proposed to oppose it. I object to voting the money of the people of Canada and of the county of Pontiac to be given to the press that will not allow the establishment of free and independent newspapers throughout Canada. The press of this country should be as free as trade. You must have freedom or slavery. If you do not stand for the freedom of the press and freedom of speech, what do you stand for? You must have a free press and a free and a liberal government, or you have nothing.

Mr. McBRIDE:

Let us have a vote on it.

Mr. CAHILL:

Hon. gentlemen spoke at great length last night on the freedom of

Supply-Canadian Press

Hindus, who are an infinitesimal proportion of the population of this country; but their freedom is of absolutely no account compared to the freedom of the press. If you are to be hobbled and bound by a press that is subsidized by the government to peddle news that is paid for you cannot be a free people. The leader of the Government knows that as well as I do. Let us get away from this bondage. Is the government afraid of the press of this country? If it is, I can tell the Prime Minister that the people are not.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

My hon.

friend and I talked this matter over and we know each other's mind fairly well, I think. It is not the intention of the government, I can assure my hon. friend, to renew the subsidy another year. The government has viewed the matter from all aspects in the endeavour to see that there is no injustice, or misunderstanding, or misrepresentation regarding its attitude, but we have thought it wrell to allow the vote to pass this year.

Mr. CAHILL:

What justification is there for voting $50,000 of the people's money for this purpose?