May 8, 1924

CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

In addition to that they

get lower freight rates for their grain than any other part of Canada. The Crowsnest pass rate is given to the West, and the result is that Ontario and Quebec are unable to get a single cent reduction in freight rates. There was talk two years ago of a' general lowering of the freight rates; but when the Crowsnest pass rate was given to the West

all the rest of the country had to go without any reduction in rates.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PRO

Robert Gardiner

Progressive

Mr. GARDINER:

Have the Maritime

provinces not received substantial reductions?

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON
PRO
CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I do not understand that '

they have, but they have been promised.

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

A very slight reduction.

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

Ontario and Quebec had

to go without any reduction in order that the West might get the advantage. I am not cursing the West or anything of that kind. I am trying to convince my hon. friend,-if it is possible for a man from Toronto to do it-of which I have some doubt

that the people of the eastern provinces of Canada are as keenly desirous to see the West prosper as they are desirous to prosper themselves, and they are showing it by a willingness to incur enormous expenditures to advance the prosperity of the West.

I believe that every section of Canada should be considered in the national policy. I think that, if we are to reach that point and get a policy that will serve the interests of all the different divisions of this country, every one of us must be willing to make some concession, and the concession I ask from the West is the acceptance of a moderate protective policy.

I was disappointed to hear the hon. member for Last Mountain (Mr. Johnston) talk of secession. He made a remark to the effect that unless the West got what it required there would be "political disintegration." I do not think that is the kind of language to use in this House. I do not believe it represents the sentiments of the West. He made some other remarks that were altogether incorrect but perhaps it is not necessary to deal with them. I do not think the people of western Canada sympathize with any such declaration as he made. When we look over the war record of the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, I for one conclude that there is no more loyal element in our population than the people residing in those provinces, and if it were the purpose of my hon. friend from Last Mountain to throw a scare into us, I would like to tell him that he failed.

We do not hear very much in this House about the sufferings endured by the business interests of Canada. I think it is about time someone ought to say a word on that point. We have heard continually about the suffer-

The Budget-Mr. Hocken

ings of the farmers, and the most of the talk is in reference to the sufferings of the prairie farmers. But I can tell my hon. friends that the figures given in the business profits tax returns show that the business interests of this country are and have been suffering during the past three years just as keenly as the agricultural interests. If you will take the last returns for. the business profits tax brought down in this House a few days ago, you will see that the amount collected has dropped from $44,000,000 in 1921 to $4,000,000 in 1923-24. What is the meaning of that unless it is that there is a terrible depression in business. If you take out of that $4,000,000 the amount paid by the pulp and paper industries and the mining industry,-perhaps the only two industries that are enjoying prosperity in Canada,-you find that general business and general manufacturing have been hardly able to pay anything in that respect.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PRO

Burt Wendell Fansher

Progressive

Mr. FANSHER:

Is the business profits

tax in force in this country now?

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON
PRO

Burt Wendell Fansher

Progressive

Mr. FANSHER:

I understand the business profits tax was repealed by the late government. .

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I am paying taxes on the

[DOT] business profits I make. My hon. friend the ex-Minister of Finance (Sir Henry Drayton) tells me I am giving it an incorrect name.

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

It is the corporation income tax, which is a good deal higher to-day than the excess profits tax was.

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I have just a word or two more to say. Yesterday the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Motherwell) said that the issue of protection and free trade is joined by this budget, and that it will be the question on which we shall go to the people at the next general election. The hon. member for Battleford (Mr. McConica) says: "Yes,

and we will trim you to a peak". I do not like his spirit. I do not want to trim anybody to a peak.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PRO

Robert Forke

Progressive

Mr. FORKE:

It is the sentiment which

the hon. member does not like.

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

It is the fact that I

entirely deny. Instead of trimming us to a peak, I think the hon. member for Battle-ford will be trimmed to a peak. The result cannot be otherwise. In the provinces contained in this confederation seven-ninths of the population are favourable to protection. Is it conceivable that the three prairie provinces occupied by two-ninths of the population of Canada will be able to swing the seven-ninths at the next general election?

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PRO

Henry Elvins Spencer

Progressive

Mr. SPENCER:

Would the hon. gentleman lead the House to believe that the three prairie provinces are the only provinces wanting free trade?

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Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON
PRO
CON

Arthur Meighen (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Did the Minister of

Agriculture not assure my hon. friends that nobody was tnIking free trade?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HOCKEN:

I think the political

history of this country shows that there are only three provinces that favour free trade.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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May 8, 1924