Mr. MEIGHEN:

Will the amount be in the supplementary estimates if the bill passes?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

It will depend on the action the House takes with reference to the bill.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

But if the bill passes, will the amount be in the supplementary estimates?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

The House will be asked to vote whatever amount is required, and I presume the request will be made in the usual order.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

That does not answer the question. The question is whether it will be put in the supplementary estimates or not. Whether the government does it in the usual order or whether it does not, will the amount be provided in the supplementary estimates, assuming that the bill will pass?

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I am afraid my right hon. friend will have to "wait and see".

Mr. J. S. WOODSWORTH (Centre Winnipeg) :

In view of the report of the Winfield conciliation board, does the government propose to take immediate action in the appointment of a royal commission to make a full, fair and impartial inquiry into the whole situation in Cape Breton with a view to ascertaining the costs of production and the returns on capital actually invested?

Hon. JAMES MURDOCK (Minister of Labour):

We are at present in correspondence with the Miners' District Board and the officials of the company as to their respective 15

positions on the Winfield board's recommendations or opinions. Further action will be determined when we have ascertained their views.

Hon. CHARLES MURPHY (Postmaster General):

Mr. Chairman, the committee will

observe that the salary items in this estimate refer only to salaries paid at Ottawa in the inside service; they have no reference to anything in the outside service. There is but little substantial difference between the amount of the estimate this year and that of last year. It will be noticed that last year the House voted $1,109,518 for these services, while this year the committee is asked to vote $1,143,729, or an increase of a little over $34,000. That increase is made up of statutory increases to the extent of about $28,000, and the balance is represented by amounts required on account of salary revision by the Civil Service Commission and the reorganization effected in the department through the same body. The number of employees, it will be observed, has increased by 25. Twenty of these new positions are what are known as office appliance operators, and are due to the introduction of what is known as the Hollerith system for mechanical sor'tation and audit of money orders and postal notes. In this connection it will be noticed that last year the amount for contingencies was $145,000, this year it is $195,000, or a difference of about $50,000. Now this difference is accounted for wholly by the introduction of the system to which I have just referred. The $50,000 is made up of two items: One for the purchase of 23,000,000

cards used in connection with the system of mechanical sortation and audit, and the other for the rental paid for the machines which perform the work. It may be stated for the information of the committee that if this system had not been introduced the department would have had to provide for the salaries of about 100 additional employees to carry on the work as it was carried on under the old method. In times past it frequently happened that this work was in arrear, sometimes to the extent of two years, but under this new system the work is kept up to date;

Supply-Post Office

and whereas in former times, from 140 to 150 employees sorted and audited about 32,000 money order cards per day, under the new system 113 employees can handle over 50,000 orders a day and make out about 50,000 cards per day. This system has perfected the work in one branch of an important public service, and the officials who are in charge of it under the Financial Superintendent would be glad if members of the House would drop into the Union Bank building, where it is installed, and see the system in operation.

Mr. CHAPLIN:

The estimates last year I see amounted to $1,109,518. What was actually spent?

Mr. MURPHY:

I am informed that on

account of salaries there was expended for 1923-4 $1,034,603, and for contingencies $154,108.66.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

How did the government manage to get the money when it was not voted?

Mr. MURPHY:

We did not-it was carried over as a charge against the present year.

Mr. CHAPLIN:

When machines are introduced in the course of ordinary business the usual effect is to reduce rather than t >

increase the number of employees. Will the minister explain the purpose of these machines? Perhaps some of us will have to go down and see them in order to understand them properly.

Mr. MURPHY:

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

Are there any in use in other countries?