Mr. SUTHERLAND:

It is quite clear the minister had an estimate and he was afraid his estimate would be exhausted. Why not let the committee know what the estimate is? After he strikes an estimate as to what is required for these different branches under the head of dairying, why not inform the committee what the estimate is? It is apparent from the minister's last statement that he was afraid last year his estimate would be exceeded. The committee was not informed as to what the amount of that estimate was. Why should a committee of this House not know what the minister proposes to do with the money?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I think the hon.

gentleman has gone far enough in trying to make a case out of nothing. I have already indicated that $2,700 was spent last year on 27 of these cold storages and that we held over eight or nine applications. Either I have lost the faculty of explaining or my hon. friend has lost the faculty of understanding, because I have gone over the matter several times. The hon. gentleman seems to be magnifying 18

things and is raising his voice simply to leave the impression that something is being withheld. There is no desire whatever to do anything of the kind.

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

It seems difficult to understand what the minister means. It is quite evident that he has had an estimate for this work and was afraid it would be exceeded. What was his estimate for last year? He has told us the amount that was paid out and he says that nine or ten applications were held over. And the year before $8,000 was paid out. What was his estimate the year before? Why not present a detailed statement giving all the facts so that we may know where we are? It is only fair that this information should be supplied.

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I do not understand what the hon. member wants. We are discussing an estimate of $3,500 for 35 creameries at $100 each.

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Why could the minister not give that information before?

Mr. GRAHAM:

He did half a dozen times.

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

Why should we have to extort the information in this way?

Mr. GRAHAM:

Since I came into the

House seven minutes ago the minister has made the same explanation three times.

Mr. SUTHERLAND:

I venture to say this matter has not been before the committee more than five minutes. According to the Minister of Railways (Mr. Graham) himself, it is only seven minutes ago since the matter was brought up.

Mr. WOODS:

This is a small item for the cold storage facilities of this country. The organized farmers of Ontario at least are developing a co-operative market and a pooling system, and in order to carry out the enterprise successfully it is necessary to have adequate cold storage facilities. There are certain seasons of the year when there is over-production in butter and eggs and so forth, including fruit as well, and there are other seasons when there is a light production, not enough to satisfy the demand. At these times there is a scarcity, with the result that prices increase. In overcoming the difficulty cold storage facilities would prove of considerable advantage, and it would help to some extent to relieve the situation to which the hon. member for South Oxford (Mr. Sutherland) has referred, namely, the importation of eggs and butter of an inferior quality at

Supply-Agriculture

certain periods of the year. If we had suitable cold storage facilities to take care of our products and enable us to put them on the market as the demand occurred it would help the situation remarkably, and would level up not only prices during the whole year round, but the quality of the produce as well; that is to say, there would be a uniform quality. I believe it would be wise for the minister to go into the cold storage question more fully. While we are anxious to cut down expenses so far as we possibly can, there are many other items which in my opinion might better stand a reduction, with more beneficial results. But certainly we should encourage the establishment of cold storage facilities in the country.

Mr. SPENCE:

Is it proposed this year

to encourage the establishment of more cold storages by a system of bonusing up to a certain percentage, as in the past? Further, is it intended to retain the Montreal cold storage?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Is nobody to-night going to point to this estimate as providing instruments of oppression of the masses? It is not very many years since this cold storage vote was denounced as only providing means for rich profiteers to withhold the food of the

people from consumption. I do not hear any voices along that line now. Has there been any change of policy in connection with cold storage warehouses ?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

No. We tried to

make a change but we could not get the bill through the upper chamber.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

What was the change?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

We were trying to

confine cold storage to co-operative activities.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Has the minister observed that cold storage warehouses are used as engines of oppression and profiteering?

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

They have been

charged with that, but I have not taken a great deal of stock in the charge. The cold storage activities I had in mind were those of men who were co-operating and giving service to their own members.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Surely the minister would

not ask us to vote money to help him oppress the consuming masses 1