February 25, 1925

CON
LIB
CON
LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

In what month did they

start tearing it down?

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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CON
LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I stand corrected. At all

events I did not tear it down, and this government did not tear it down. Let me now give my hon. friend the revenue from the Toronto office. The figures are as follows:

Customs Customs Excise ExciseYeaT Entries Revenue Entries Revenue1922- 1923 . . 206,239 $28,842,403 59 50,403 $28,481,660 091923- 1924 . . 283,738 $29,880,074 36 49.544 $28,375,820 00

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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CON
LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I can compare those figures with those of any of the biggest ports, Vancouver, for instance, or Montreal. The corresponding figures for Montreal and Vancouver are:

Supply-Customs

Montreal

Customs Customs Excise Excise Year Entries Revenue Entries Revenue

1922- 1923 . . 233,731 $32,307,801 43 58,326 $34,456,503 991923- 1924 . . 271,207 $30,900,360 76 59,440 $60,176,645 17

Vancouver

1922- 1923 . . 92,738 $11,287,929 90 11,859 $ 4,441,329 861923- 1924 . . 99,744 $11,489,291 77 14,299 $ 5340,605 23

My hon. friend can find these figures, I think, in the Auditor General's report. Toronto would .average, I am told iby the officers who are more acquainted with the details, about 20 per cent of the total.

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

Just on that point, are these figures in dollars the value of the goods entered or the amount of revenue collected?

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

In the case of customs it

was the amount of duty that was collected, and in the cases of excise the amount of excise taxes and duties that were paid, the amounts being collected by the department at the various points.

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

To go back to the

other matter I was discussing. I asked for the amount of superannuation paid during the year and it was given as $49,551.57, but the saving by absorbing the bonus was something less than $20,000 last year. Therefore we have paid out in this department nearly $30,000 more than we did last year. This illustrates the necessity of getting these estimates before a committee or, as an hon. member suggested, of printing and distributing the detailed information. If this Were done it would, I think, save a good deal of time in committee of the Whole. What I should like to know in this connection is how much was paid into the superannuation fund by those persons who were superannuated in this department.

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I am not in a position to give my hon. friend that information. The amounts paid for superannuation are kept in the Finance department; the various departments are not in possession of those details.

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PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

I realize that, but if we are going to discuss the estimates or pass legislation intelligently we should have this information. I am not blaming the minister because he has not got the information, but the lack of it illustrates the need for fuller details than we are now able to get in committee of the Wbole. When the superannuation bill passed last year I was in committee at the time, but I fully prepared myself to discuss the measure when it went through. I should like to have the information for which I have asked at some future time if it can be secured. I refer to the amount paid in by

any of those officers who have been superannuated. I think a great many hon. members believed last year that civil servants were paying enough into the fund to meet the expenses of superannuation when superannuation became due. However, this is not the case. I was going to say it falls short of doing that by 95 per cent-that is, I doubt if members of the civil service pay in more than five per cent of the amount they draw out in the way of superannuation. I may be a little out in the statement but that is my opinion. For instance we will take a man who enters the service at the age of twenty, at a pretty low salary. His stipend is augmented as time goes on and he retires with a pretty good salary. I understand he could retire at the age of fifty after thirty yeans' service.

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LIB
PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

I understand he can

retire after thirty years' of service no matter what his age. I think the minister will find that I am right. He can retire after thirty years in the service or at the age of sixty-five.

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LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

If, the employee is

physically incapacitated he can be retired after thirty-five years' service; otherwise, not until he is sixty-five years of age. There is a special provision under which an employee who possesses special qualifications can be retained until the is seventy-five provided he is physically sound.

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PRO
LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I am as positive as I can

be of anything.

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PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

We will say the salary

of the employee is $1,500, I think that will cover a great many cases. Well, he pays in five per cent of his salary during his term of office. That would be $75 per year which, paid in for thirty years, would represent a total of $2,250 he had paid into the fund. If his salary average $3,500 for the last ten years of his service he would draw one-fiftieth of that amount multiplied by the number of yeara he had been in the service, whereas he would only have contributed $2,250 during the whole term of his employment. I think it is abundantly clear that there must be an immense sum of money contributed from the public treasury in order to provide for the superannuation of members of the civil service. Therefore, I think we should have this particular information, and I should like to ask

Crowsnest Pass Agreement

the minister if he will secure it for us from the Finance department before his estimates

are passed.

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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LIB

Jacques Bureau (Minister of Customs and Excise)

Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I am neither ready nor

willing to engage in a financial discussion at this stage. My hon. friend has only put one side of the question.

Topic:   CUSTOMS AND EXCISE
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February 25, 1925