My hon. friend can find these figures, I think, in the Auditor General's report. Toronto would .average, I am told iby the officers who are more acquainted with the details, about 20 per cent of the total.
other matter I was discussing. I asked for the amount of superannuation paid during the year and it was given as $49,551.57, but the saving by absorbing the bonus was something less than $20,000 last year. Therefore we have paid out in this department nearly $30,000 more than we did last year. This illustrates the necessity of getting these estimates before a committee or, as an hon. member suggested, of printing and distributing the detailed information. If this Were done it would, I think, save a good deal of time in committee of the Whole. What I should like to know in this connection is how much was paid into the superannuation fund by those persons who were superannuated in this department.
I realize that, but if we are going to discuss the estimates or pass legislation intelligently we should have this information. I am not blaming the minister because he has not got the information, but the lack of it illustrates the need for fuller details than we are now able to get in committee of the Wbole. When the superannuation bill passed last year I was in committee at the time, but I fully prepared myself to discuss the measure when it went through. I should like to have the information for which I have asked at some future time if it can be secured. I refer to the amount paid in by
any of those officers who have been superannuated. I think a great many hon. members believed last year that civil servants were paying enough into the fund to meet the expenses of superannuation when superannuation became due. However, this is not the case. I was going to say it falls short of doing that by 95 per cent-that is, I doubt if members of the civil service pay in more than five per cent of the amount they draw out in the way of superannuation. I may be a little out in the statement but that is my opinion. For instance we will take a man who enters the service at the age of twenty, at a pretty low salary. His stipend is augmented as time goes on and he retires with a pretty good salary. I understand he could retire at the age of fifty after thirty yeans' service.
physically incapacitated he can be retired after thirty-five years' service; otherwise, not until he is sixty-five years of age. There is a special provision under which an employee who possesses special qualifications can be retained until the is seventy-five provided he is physically sound.
of the employee is $1,500, I think that will cover a great many cases. Well, he pays in five per cent of his salary during his term of office. That would be $75 per year which, paid in for thirty years, would represent a total of $2,250 he had paid into the fund. If his salary average $3,500 for the last ten years of his service he would draw one-fiftieth of that amount multiplied by the number of yeara he had been in the service, whereas he would only have contributed $2,250 during the whole term of his employment. I think it is abundantly clear that there must be an immense sum of money contributed from the public treasury in order to provide for the superannuation of members of the civil service. Therefore, I think we should have this particular information, and I should like to ask
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the minister if he will secure it for us from the Finance department before his estimates