April 27, 1925

LIB

John W. Carruthers

Liberal

Mr. CARRUTHERS:

Capital levy.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

I had occasion to make

careful inquiries in order to get accurate information. The industrial conditions and the condition of the farmers in France are better than in Canada. It may be temporary, but the conditions in France and in the United States are better than the conditions in Canada. People go from Canada to the States.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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IND

William Charles Good

Independent Progressive

Mr. GOOD:

Is my hon. friend not speaking only >of the employment situation in France?

The Budget-Mr. Ladner

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

No, I am speaking of business conditions, exports, employment and wages. You can hardly hire people there, the demand for labour is so great.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

John W. Carruthers

Liberal

Mr. CARRUTHERS:

It is being done on borrowed money.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

Lots of people run their

businesses in that way. Some of our Progressive friends have said that they were running farms on borrowed money but they were still happy.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

John W. Carruthers

Liberal

Mr. CARRUTHERS:

Is the value of the French franc and our dollar to be taken into consideration?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

[DOT] The determining factor in the situation is the workman. He is working all day, comes home at night, has his food and clothing and something to put in the bank and it does not matter how you work out the value of the franc.

Hon. members were asking about duties a moment ago and I have a word to say about that question. I had an inquiry made in the Bureau of Statistics as to the ad valorem rates of customs duty on dutiable goods imported into Canada as compared with the United States respectively for the fiscal years 1870, 1880, 1890, 1901, 1911, 1923 and 1924. Now I think we can learn from the experience of others. The figures are as follows:

Customs duties on dutiable Canada United States

imports- Per cent Per cent

!870

20.9 47.081880 *

26.1 43.481890

31 41.411901

27.5 49.6419H

25.9 41.221923

24.9 36.071924

22.7 35.63

So that during the last fifty-five years the customs duties on dutiable goods entering the United States as compared with Canada have been from 50 per cent to 235 per cent higher than those in Canada. Yet when you go there to live, pay taxes, and buy your food and 'clothing, you pay less taxes, pay less for your food and clothing, you have more employment and are better able to save and put a little money in the bank. What further proof does any reasonable man want than that of the soundness of the policy?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PRO

Daniel Webster Warner

Progressive

Mr. WARNER:

What does the hon. gentleman mean when he says that he pays more taxes here than in the United States?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

If my hon. friend had

been here ia few moments ago he would have heard the figures I gave at that time.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

Daniel Webster Warner

Progressive

Mr. WARNER:

My hon. friend had

reference simply to the tariff taxes.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

No, I have reference to

all taxes, the burden on the people. If the hon. gentleman wishes to take the income tax, I tell him it is from two to six times as much in Canada as in the United States.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

Daniel Webster Warner

Progressive

Mr. WARNER:

Will my hon. friend

permit me to make a statement?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

If it is not too long, go

ahead.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
PRO

Daniel Webster Warner

Progressive

Mr. WARNER:

I have lived over there

and I know personally that my taxes were a good deal higher than they were when I came to Canada. At the present time they are higher all the way through in the United States than they are here. I know that because I have lived in both places, and I am acquainted over there now just as well as the hon. gentleman.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

Perhaps it is some years

since my hon. friend lived there. I have my information on good authority, not guess-work. It is vouched for by people who know the facts from accurate data.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
IND

William Charles Good

Independent Progressive

Mr. GOOD:

Before my hon. friend proceeds, would he not think it much fairer to make the comparison with rates on total imports, rather than on dutiable imports?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

No, I would not, because

in figuring out the customs duty, the thing which concerns us-that is if the incidence of taxation falls upon the consumer in the country to which it is consigned-is the amount you pay on the dutiable goods.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
IND

William Charles Good

Independent Progressive

Mr. GOOD:

In the case of a nation which admitted 95 per cent of the goods free and levied a duty of 100 per cent on the balance of 5 per cent importation, would it be fair to compare that with a nation which has a flat rate of 10 per cent on all imports? Does the hon. gentleman not see that in one case they paid a tax of 100 per cent duty and in the other case they paid only 10 per cent? Does the hon. gentleman not see the point?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Leon Johnson Ladner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LADNER:

Yes, but you can work

these things out in different ways. I have worked it out according to the manner in which the authorities work it out when they want to get at the true facts of the case. I have been told the proper way to figure it out is the method I have adopted, and I do not think there can be much argument about it.

The Budget-Mr. Ladner

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OP DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL
Sub-subtopic:   MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

April 27, 1925