Mr. MEIGHEN:

Not called.

Department of Trade and Commerce-culling timber, annuity for one superannuated culler, $200.

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

I wonder what

the idea is in calling this item to-night at this hour? Perhaps it is because the minister thinks that nothing more can be said on his estimates? I do not know whether he is going to make any plea for economy under this item. The minister has been talking about economy, and1 before closing for the night I am going to give him one or two facts arising out of his estimates. Instead of bringing about economy these estimates represent a substantial increase over the estimates of 1921-22, over the estimates that the government delights in pointing out were such high estimates, such tremendous estimates, estimates representing such tremendous extravagance as to justify the Prime Minister making the remarks that he did. The estimates for this department for 1921-22 amounted to $3,727,333. Now the estimates this year, and we are told there are going to be supplementaries, involve an increase of $214,472. The estimates for 1921-22, included an increase for the purposes of the Dominion census, which amounted to $1,620,000, so that we have in the exercise of this wonderful economy this year in connection with this one department an increase of $1,834,472 over the estimates of 1921-22 which this government have described as extravagant. I would suggest that during the adjournment my hon. friend consider these figures, that he read with some profit and turn to some use the speech of his right hon. leader in connection with the former government, and see if he cannot get down to the level of the former

Supply-Trade and Commerce

government's extravagance instead of exceeding it by $1,800,000 odd dollars.

Mr. .LOW: My hon. friend suggests that I carry these figures away with me over night. It is cjilite unnecessary for me to take any time inf doing that or in answering him. My hon. fnend says that (the expenditure in 1921-22 was a million dollars less than in 192324. Was that his contention?

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

No, I did not

say that at all.

Mr. LOW:

Well a million dollars less than some year.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Than this year.

Mr. LOW:

All right, than this year.

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

It was $1,800,-

000 odd having regard to the vote for the census.

Mr. LOW:

Yes but not having regard to

the building of an elevator at a cost of about a million and a half of dollars. That amount is included in the estimates of last year and this year. Included also are amounts for the Halifax and Prince Rupert elevators.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

But the census is called

for by the constitution; the Halifax and Prince Rupert elevators are not.

Mr. LOW:

No, but the elevators are a

necessity as my right hon. friend has said.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

A necessity for the government.

Mr. LOW:

So I think that if my hon.

friend will carry these figures away with him he will come to a different conclusion. If he considers the amounts that have been placed in the estimates this year for the Halifax and Prince Rupert elevators he will find that

they exceed the amount placed in the estimates of 1921-22 for the census by from two hundred to three hundred thousand dollars. Last year also there was a vote for an elevator at Edmonton, but no provision was made for elevators in the years my hon. friend speaks of.

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

When I asked

my hon. friend to take these figures away I meant it. He is wrong-absolutely entirely and, I am afraid, incurably wrong. He tells us that the expenditure on elevators, one at Halifax and one at Prince Rupert, is greater than the whole amount of the increase in connection with the census-

Mr. McMASTER:

I am sure my hon.

friend will excuse me if I rise to a point of order, but item 365 has been called, which provides $200 for an annuity for one superannuated culler. Now as I understand the rules of the House the discussion must be directed to the item under consideration and these general remarks about the whole of the items are not, I respectfully and almost affectionately submit, in order.

The CHAIRMAN:

I agree with the hon.

member for Brome.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I think that when the

hon. member for Brome becomes so anxious to get away from the economy issue we ought to yield if possible. I would be willing to let the minister have this $200 and give $200 to the member for Brome rather than sit here all night.