May 12, 1925

PRO

Robert Forke

Progressive

Mr. FORKE:

It depends upon which

quarter it comes from.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

It is administered by regulations in the Customs and Excise Department. There is a Customs Board dealing with the regulations to which the importers may appeal. Generally I think it has been fairly administered. It has been in operation since 1906.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

I presume the complaint that the valuation has been too low comes from the Manufacturers' Association.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

No, not necessarily; not always.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Thomas Wakem Caldwell

Progressive

Mr. CALDWELL:

I think it would be

doubtful if the minister would claim that it would come from the consumers.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Robert Alexander Hoey

Progressive

Mr. HOEY:

The minister says it applies

to dutiable goods. Does it not apply to free goods as well, such as binder twine?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

Oh, yes.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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CON

Thomas Langton Church

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHURCH:

The formal resolution with regard to the dumping clause was announced in the budget speech, but later the Acting Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb) gave notice that he would withdraw it. When he first announced the withdrawal of the dumping clause it met with applause from my hon. friends to my left; no doubt it was a surrender of the government to the free trade policy of those hon. members.

In the large cities of Canada there is a protest from every business man about the way in which German and American goods are being dumped into this country. If you walk into any of the departmental stores in the city from which I come you will find that German goods of many kinds are being sold over the counter, and it is'impossible for the small retailer or the large or small manufacturer to compete under existing conditions. An almost unanimous wish has been expressed that the government should provide a drastic dumping regulation, to take care of our

3090 COMMONS

Ways and Means-Customs Tariff

native products and industries. The large and small manufacturers of the country have to contend with many economic conditions which are almost intolerable on account of the competition of the German manufacturer, where they have cheaper labour, longer hours of work and depreciated currency. In that country they are not paying the heavy taxes which the manufacturer has to pay in this country. These impositions have become a nuisance and a burden on trade and commerce in Canada, and I do not know how long the present condition is going to continue. A letter was read in the House the other day in regard to this matter, telling us how factories were being closed and how the people were out of work in this country, while Germany was in. a prosperous condition-many people in Canada in the breadline or having a hard struggle to keep home and family together. The other night in the House I exhibited some of these German articles which were sent here from Toronto, showing how impossible it was, owing to the present condition of the dumping clause, to compete with the foreign goods from Germany and the United States.

What does the government propose to do about it? A large number of men are going to the States. Many industries are closed and others are suffering from the lack of some provision which would protect them. I do plead with the minister, notwithstanding what he has said here today and what he stated the other day, to do something for the small manufacturers and the larger manufacturers in order to give them some safeguard, which they have not to-day as a result of the condition of the dumping clause at the present time. The dumping clause was a good Liberal doctrine a few years ago when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) was actively in charge. He saw the condition many years ago and recognized the necessity of providing relief for the Canadian artisan and mechanic, and he did something for them. But to-day the flood-gates are open, and European goods of all kinds are being sent into Canada and I do not know where it is going to end. Take the shoe industry which has been so much referred to both m this House and outside. We have suffered very much on account of present conditions. Owing to -mass production in European countries, shoes have been sold in Canada for a dollar and a half, when these same shoes could not be produced by Canadian workmen for less than two, three or four dollars. England is coming forward with a dumping clause. It may be an indirect way of IMr. Church.]

doing it by the Safeguarding of Industries Act, but they have to make some provision to safeguard the industries of England. The United States is doing the same thing. I appeal to the minister, because he is more in touch with the trade and commerce of the countrj than anybody else, to look into conditions and have some regard for the unanimous protests from the city from which I come and from all over Canada, and to take some practical action to prevent the dumping of European goods into Canada in such a wholesale manner which has the effect of closing up many industries in Canada,-causing unemployment and driving our citizens to join the exodus.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

John Evans

Progressive

Mr. EVANS:

I was wondering if the hon. member for Brant (Mr. Good) had received a proper answer to his question yet. I have reason to believe that the dumping clause should not be applied according to the original meaning of that act. I take it the dumping clause is not applied until goods are sold at five per cent less for export than they are sold in the country of origin.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

That is right.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

John Evans

Progressive

Mr. EVANS:

I have reason to believe the Dumping Act is applied according to the price which is fixed at the instigation of the Canadian manufacturers, instead of being governed by the price in the country of origin, and moreover goods which are on the free list also come under t'he Dumping Act, and dumping duty has been charged on goods which have been imported into this country when sold at the regular price in Great Britain. I Should like to have some information regarding that. The question is whether, with the customs authorities already using the power that this provision sought to give them, it would still be used if we passed this paragraph.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Glengarry):

Would the

minister give a statement in a general way as to what he considers the purpose of the dumping clause?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

My hon. friend from Saskatoon (Mr. Evans) appears to have a fair knowledge of the position. It applies when the goods are sold at less than five per cent of the fair value in the country of origin. The five per cent however does not apply to free goods. That is the general purpose.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Robert Alexander Hoey

Progressive

Mr. HOEY:

It does not apply to natural

products.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

If they are produced in Canada it applies.

Ways and Means-Customs Tariff

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Glengarry):

Would the

minister state whether or not in his opinion the act should be applied where there is no serious cutting of prices as between the country of origin and the price in Canada?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

Five per cent is the regulation.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Glengarry):

It only

applies to dutiable goods.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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LIB

James Alexander Robb (Minister of Immigration and Colonization)

Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I will give my hon. friend an instance. The hon. member for North Toronto (Mr. Church) a few moments ago made a representation regarding undervaluation. We have had a lot of representabons placed before us with regard to the importation of manufactured goods. But I recall an instance just about a year ago when there was complaint from the dairymen of this country who claimed large consignments of butter were shipped in from New York at a price fax below the market value. What happened was this. There was a surplus of butter on a certain day in New York and the price went down. They shipped thirty or forty cars into Canada and the price in New York went up immediately. Our dairymen represented to us that the "fair market value" should not be the price on a day when there was a large surplus but the price the day before the goods were shipped, or the day after. Thus hon. members will see that the dumping clause applied to other than manufactured goods.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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PRO

Donald MacBeth Kennedy

Progressive

Mr. KENNEDY (Glengarry):

That was

not my question. What the minister states is true in the case of articles where there is a serious fluctuation in the price either in Canada or in the country of origin. If the firm importing into Canada are not seriously cutting their prices in order to interfere with Canadian manufacturers, should the dumping clause be applied?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   CUSTOMS TARIFF, 1907, AMENDMENT
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May 12, 1925