Mr. MEIGHEN:

The hon. gentleman is Still on a worse com than he was at first if. that is the case. If there is no special privilege at all, and if all other rates are put on a parity with Crowsnest pass rates, then why ask for legislation?

[Mt. Hoey.]

Mr. KENNEDY (Edmonton):

That is not the point. The right hon. gentleman says that the Crowsnest pass agreement is giving a special privilege. .

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The railway commission has never held that there is discrimination against the west. The railway commission do not hold any such view, because it is instructed by the law of Canada to remove any discrimination that can be removed. The head of the Canadian National Railways, not two weeks ago and not a hundred yards from this place, declared that grain rates in western Canada were 50 per cent lower than corresponding grain rates in the United States.

Mr. KENNEDY (Edmonton):

That does

not affect the matter.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Not only that but the

head of the other railway said so also. But that is not the point. The point is this, that if the Crowsnest pass rates are only rates of a level that could prevail over the whole country, as the hon. gentleman wants the House to understand, why does he fear that the Crowsnest rates will not be maintained if the railway commission is allowed to deal with them?

Mr. HOEY:

For protection, because of

the absence of water competition.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Will the hon. gentleman do this also for every part that has not water competition?

Mr. HOEY:

No, because they are not so vitally concerned.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

They are not? They

are just as vitally concerned as any other part. How does the hon. member think he is in a special place of danger?

Mr. HOEY:

Will the right hon. member name any territory as vast?

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The central part of

British Columbia.

Mr. HOEY:

There are no people there.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

There will not be any people if other people are getting all the advantages over them. There are people in the inland parts of Ontario and Quebec that are not affected by water competition in the slightest, larger populations than the whole of the west. Hon. gentlemen have been simply covering themselves with feathers on this matter. They have no case to stand on at all. I do not believe if the people from

Railway Freight Rates

western Canada let the whole Crowsnest pass rates go and allowed the railway commission a free hand that, in the course of a very short time, there would be any higher rates than there are to-day.

Mr. MORRISON:

How is it that the railways are so anxious to get this Crowsnest pass agreement abolished?

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Anybody would be

anxious to get it abolished.

Mr. MORRISON:

So that they would be able to get higher rates. Everybody knows that.

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The railways cannot give in other parts of Canada the rates which they could give if the railway commission had a free hand.

Mr. WARNER:

Does that not mean that the west would pay the difference?

Mr. MEIGHEN:

There are undoubtedly

portions of the west to-day that, in my judgment, are paying under the Crowsnest pass agreement lower rates than they would pay otherwise, but the great part of the west, I believe, are not, and that is shown by the offer of the railways two years ago before the committee. The point is this: If they are

not higher than is fair, than the railway commission would fix, why in the world are hon. gentlemen asking for the continuance of this agreement? Is not the railway commission competent to take these matters into consideration? Let me put the position in this way to hon. gentlemen. If some special consideration should be given to the absence of water competition, is it not the right and the proper function of parliament to declare what that consideration should be, to lay down a principle governing the matter, and to direct the railway commission to follow that principle? Is not that the right course for parliament to pursue?

Mr. MORRISON:

And what else does the Crowsnest agreement do?