Mr. HEAPS:

If they are able to take care of themselves, does the hon. member not know they will not require the old age pension and so will be no burden on the country?

Mr. FOSTER:

I said just a moment ago that we had to differentiate in regard to where these people live. The hon. member will appreciate, I am sure, that when this House and this country put a premium on inactivity and lack of thrift we shall have conditions much the same as they are in the Old Country, where they have a dole system and cannot get rid of it. He knows that as well as anybody else in this House.

Mr. HEAPS:

There is no dole system in

the Old Country.

The CHAIRMAN:

I think we had better get back to the resolution.

Mr. FOSTER:

I will in a moment, but

when I am interrupted by such statements as the last it is a little difficult to come back gracefully. I have pointed, out to

10 p.m. my hon. friend that these commitments will reach in the neighbourhood of $100,000,000. When we hear rumours throughout the country that one part of this government was willing to assist the Maritime provinces, and particularly Nova Scotia, in the matter I mentioned a moment ago, and another part of the government would not listen to that, we must conclude only that it was for the purpose of playing a little cheap party politics.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

My hon. friend has alluded to the government. Will he kindly indicate the source of the rumour?

Mr. FOSTER:

It would be difficult to do that.

Mr. MACKENZIE KING:

I thought so.

Mr. FOSTER:

I may tell my right hon.

friend that we pressed the case in his absence in this House, as he knows very well, and we pressed it hard. It was a reasonable case and the statements of the Minister of the Interior would indicate that his heart was with us, but we have not been able to get anything practical done. So we have to conclude that some pressure must have been brought upon the rest of the government which prevented action being taken. I think

LMr. Foster.]

that is a fair conclusion for one to come to in view of the fact that nothing has been done of a practical nature to relieve the actual distress that I have referred to. ,

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I think my hon. friend is under a misapprehension, because as a matter of fact I understand the provincial government have made advances to relieve the distress, and of course under the arrangement this government will have to make its contribution.

Mr. FOSTER:

Well, Mr. Chairman, I

am not to ibe sidetracked in that way.

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I am simply stating what really happened.

Mr. FOSTER:

I quite understand that

the provincial government and our people have beggared themselves in an endeavour to assist the miners in an emergency which was not of their own making altogether, though partly it may have been. But the fact remains that we asked this government for its good offices to attain an object which meant nothing more than a charge upon the country of $15,000. We are unable to get that assistance. Now we are asked to vote $5,000,000 for one section of the country.

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

My hon.

friend cannot get away with that statement because we are on record as having offered to assist in that particular case.

Mr. FOSTER:

I know they are on record Mr. Chairman, as offering to .assist, but it was in a form that was of no value. What practical use is that? The assistance was offered on receipt of information from the government of Nova Scotia telling this government plainly vrhat the provincial government was able to do and what it could not do. Then we made a real proposition, which meant this government assuming at the outside an expenditure of $15,000. It was a simple matter, but we could not get that assistance. So I say it becomes a little difficult for members from the Maritime provinces who want to be fair to this government or to any other government that may occupy the treasury benches to assist in the upbuilding of this country. I care not what government occupies the treasury 'benches for the moment, I am interested primarily in the upbuilding of this country. I have had as close association with the upbuilding of western Canada and of eastern Canada for the last ten years as has any member of the government. In fact I have sent a great many settlers and a lot of money into that

Advances to Settlers

country to help develop it. I am just as sincerely anxious, therefore, to do all I can in the upbuilding of that country and of the rest of Canada as is the Minister of Agriculture or the right hon. leader of the government or any of his cabinet and supporters in this House. I want the country to understand that I have proven that. So that when I examine this resolution, thick-headed though I may be on some of these points, not having had the experience of other hon. gentlemen in this House, I want the country to know that when we from the Maritime provinces bear our share again and again in these propositions for the upbuilding of Canada as a whole, we have a right to feel that in regard to any moderate requests which we may make of the government of the day, whatever be its political complexion, that government should come forward and say: Your request is a reasonable one, made in a reasonable manner, and it ought to be granted forthwith.

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

As it is intended that the natural resources of the three western provinces shall be handed back to them, what is the necessity of going on with this proposal? Why not leave such work to the provinces when they have the lands themselves?

Mr. STEIWART (Edmonton):

As already

announced, a bill will be brought down for the transfer of the natural resources of Alberta, but there is no arrangement with the other two provinces; with them the matter is still under discussion. Of course if the bill transferring to Alberta its natural resources goes into effect, I am convinced the province would be perfectly willing to place any of the crown lands at the disposal of the government for settlement purposes. That is why the bill is general in character.

In reply to my hon. friend from Hants-Kings (Mr. Foster), for some reason I seem to be unfortunate in dealing with the coal question. I have been perfectly willing to give reasonable support for the transportation of coal both east and west. I have demonstrated that on former occasions by having fairly respectable amounts put in the estimates for the purpose; and we did assist the Nova Scotia movement to some extent. I go further. I am willing to continue that assistance because I am very anxious that Nova Scotia coal should be burned in central Canada. But that is quite aside from the question, and no doubt it will be discussed when the time comes. If hon. gentlemen will H011-122

let this resolution pass, and I have an opportunity of getting the bill before the House, its exact provisions will then be before each member, and I shall be perfectly willing to listen to representations from members from Nova Scotia. I do not want to be sectional.

I come from western Canada, but I want to foster a truly Canadian spirit and assist every portion of Canada. That is why we find here provision for assisting the Maritime provinces to secure settlement. I want to pay my tribute to Premier Rhodes. He has expressed his willingness to co-operate with us on immigration matters. We want to co-operate with every provincial government. This must be a Canada-wide effort, or it will fail. I have to regret the feeling that eastern Canada is always being sacrificed for the west. That is rather an unfortunate spirit to instil in our people. I think it is really because we do not understand one another sufficiently well, for my experience here is that the various provinces are fairly generously treated by every government, judging by the estimates. Of course, unfortunate circumstances always will arise. For instance, British Columbia thinks it is being discriminated against because it is at the extreme west. Now we have this unfortunate circumstance in the east. But it seems to me that we must approach these questions from the viewpoint of having a Canada-wide policy. That is what I have tried to carry out in this bill, imperfect though it may be. I am ready and willing to listen to suggestions that will improve the bill itself, and I hope the resolution will pass so that I may get the bill before the House.

Mr. BENNETT:

Mr. Chairman, I spoke this afternoon on the resolution. I am going now to make a few further observations because I think it would be very unfair to the section of the country I represent to assume that the semblance of prosperity which we have at the present time is attributable to any effort of eastern Canada. The real truth is that the three prairie provinces with a population of less than two million people have produced a new wealth during the past year of nearly a thousand million dollars. That, is really the basis of the present semblance of our prosperity, and until such time as there is a frank recognition of that fact on the part of those who reside east of the Great Lakes, we shall be open to many difficulties, much acrimony and a great deal of unpleasant discussion. I do not think this country should be divided into an eastern and a western group. But I do say there are reasons why hon. gentlemen who reside in the country in which I was born and where I

Advances to Settlers

lived the early days of my life might well conclude from the readiness with which principles that formerly were declared to be guiding principles of the party have been sacrificed, because those sacrifices have been asked for from western Canada, that therefore the west is dominating the situation, I do not conceive that to be the opinion of men in the west, and I know what the sentiment there is; I have knocked around a good deal in that part of the country, having gone there as a young man. When you remember how difficult this country's economic condition is, when you remember that we have two and a half billion dollars of a debt, and are obliged to raise close on to $400,000,000 a year, the real problem is where and how we can most readily create new wealth. New wealth is more readily created in the west than in any other part of the Dominion; I do not think there can be any doubt about that. And it is not from any sectional point of view that I make that observation. Every Canadian must be proud of the fact that a population of less than 2,000,000 produced in the year 1925 wealth to the value of $900,000,000. There is no doubt that the purchasing power of eastern Canada has been increased many fold as a result of that money having been made available in Canada at this time.

I am sure that no one will accuse me of being deficient in party spirit; no one will say that I am not a fairly strong partisan. Having observed that, I must say that I do not view this measure in any party light at all. I do not consider it party legislation. This is a demand that comes from a great many people in the west. Last year I was twice in the Old Country, and I was frequently asked by people there why it was that, willing as they are to use their money to assist their settlers in coming to Canada, there was no indication of any willingness on our part to help people of small means to settle properly on the land and to produce wealth from the soil. The minister has not said much about this phase of the subject, having only hinted at it. I do not know whether there is any reason why he should not have alluded to it, but this measure will go a long way towards removing that difficulty. I am satisfied that it will be very much appreciated in quarters that have not been mentioned, for it will enable people who have only enough money to come out here to get settled on a piece of land, not in the woods nor in the wilderness, and not in remote sections of the country where timber has to be cut down at the cost of $40 an acre. There are no inconsiderable areas of land still

available which would be suitable for homesteads-lands, not far from settled communities but which have been overlooked for one reason or another, where wheat cannot be grown as readily as on the more fertile plains, but where the husbandman with a few cows may increase the value of his dairy products. I may observe that in the United States last year the value of the dairy products was greatly in excess of the farm products; the figures issued only last week are staggering in their magnitude. This measure will assist men of the type engaged in this industry to settle upon these lands within fifteen miles of railways in little villages and towns, and with the assistance thus given them they will be enabled to improve their condition, which otherwise they could not do.

I have in mind at this moment two men I know who in the early days had very meagre means, and who, if they had been able to avail themselves of some scheme whereby they might have purchased a few cows, would have prospered much more rapidly than they did, although they have succeeded remarkably. There occurs to me, while I am on this point, a letter which I have received since coming to the House from a man who came over from the Old Country with limited means. He said that he would be able to build a little home, but that he could not do much more than that, and he was afraid that his pathway would be strewn with too many difficulties if he had not assistance of some kind.

It is in no partisan spirit that I approach this measure, for, as I have already said, I do not consider it party legislation. It is a measure, that affords relief not only to the west, but to every part of Canada.

Hear, hear.

Mr. BENNETT:

I see no reason why hon. gentlemen should applaud that statement. The measure says as much: it is available to every part of the Dominion. But the fact that the people of western Canada can take advantage of it more readily than residents in the older provinces is no argument against its adoption.

One other question remains to be considered, and that is with respect to taxation, which so bothered one of my hon. friends. I fully appreciate his difficulty. Where you have a vacant piece of crown land surrounded by settled areas it is clear that if it bears no burden of taxation then the burden placed on the adjoining and surrounding sections is greater. But if you get a settler on that piece of land it is not necessary to build a

Advances to Settlers

new school, as you would have to do in some remote section, nor are there any new roads to be constructed. All you require is a new rural post office box put up, and that settler, if he succeeds, as he must if he has the determination, will be able to make some contribution in the w'ay of additional taxes to the community in which he lives, and thereby reduce the general burden. The effect, therefore, is obviously to lighten rather than to increase the burden of taxation which the community as a w'hole must bear.

I am greatly pleased to hear the minister say that he is not unwilling to reduce the amount. Every word that has been said today as to the serious condition of this country,

I believe. We must realize that there are many projects in which we should like to engage but which we are unable to undertake. Financial considerations are often the measure of our ability. It is not our willingness but our ability to do these things that counts; and if the minister would reduce the vote to a reasonable sum and surround it with the safeguards which he has expressed his preparedness to do, I think the measure should meet with approval. The minister and I differ greatly in our political views, but I want to say that, however wide may be that difference between us, there is one respect in which, I am sure, we are in accord. In his desire to espouse measures that will benefit the country as a whole he has as strong and abiding a faith in his country as the rest of us. If, therefore, he will carry out the suggestions he has indicated, and give effect to them, 3 am satisfied that this measure will have a fair trial and we shall supplement the effort of our kinsmen across the Atlantic to enable immigrants, who perhaps are not rich in this world's goods but who are strong in hope, courageous, and of that virile race that makes the kind of settlers we so much require, to come to this country and become happy and contented Canadians.

I am sorry that we should have drifted in this debate into a discussion of the relative contributions that are made to this country's financial wealth by the east and by the west. I cannot have it said for a moment that the west is second to any part of the Dominion in the contribution it makes to the national wellbeing. I should be glad at any time to sit down and discuss with hon. gentlemen, as I said a little while ago to an hon. member who at present is not in his place, the per capita contributions made to the new wealth of Canada by various parts of the country. After all, the mere swapping of pieces of paper, to use the vulgar language of the street, does 14011-1221

not add anything to the new wealth of a country. I may be able to exchange my share certificate on the stock exchange for a sum of money, but that does not add one single dollar to the new wealth of Canada. On the other hand, if, by any suggestion that I may make, legislation before parliament can be improved and I can thereby do my part to make it easier for one who is coming over to this country for the first time, to till the soil and acquire new wealth, then, indeed, I have assisted him in making a contribution to Canada much greater than anything that might be involved in the mere exchange of pieces of paper for money. He has done something that creates additional wealth, something that did not exist before, and he has thus been able to add something of a very permanent nature to the welfare of the country.

I have dwelt on this point because I felt, as one must feel who has lived as long as I have in the west and who came originally from the east, that I could not have it said that the people in that part of the country were merely sponging on the rest of Canada.