May 11, 1926

CON

Henry Lumley Drayton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir HENRY DRAYTON:

Forty-nine

nounted policemen.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

And the people who were .rilled or injured would not care very much whether you called them troops or policemen. I was in Winnipeg at the time.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Felix Patrick Quinn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. QUINN:

May I be permitted to ask

a question?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles Marcil

Liberal

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr. Marcil):

Not without the consent of the hon. member who is now speaking, but I would ask the House to discontinue discussion along this line.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Felix Patrick Quinn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. QUINN:

Have I permission to ask

a question? .

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

Go ahead.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Felix Patrick Quinn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. QUINN:

Is the hon. member aware

that two years ago in the coal riots in Cape Breton people were killed?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

Oh, if the hon. member

wants to become reminiscent, I remember some time ago when I was a little boy in Ireland there was a riot.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Felix Patrick Quinn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. QUINN:

I am talking about Canada. Let Ireland go. I am just as Irish as the hon. member who has the floor.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

Pardon me; I did not

mean that to be a smart answer to the hon. member (Mr. Quinn); I was answering the hon. member for South Renfrew (Mr. Maloney), who spoke yesterday about what happened a year ago in Nova Scotia. During the Winnipeg strike I was there; our men kept out of the strike. Therefore, I know something about it, and I know there was no more need for troops in the Winnipeg strike in 1919 than there was for troops in Nova Scotia last year. I am simply trying to get the facts before the people. All that was necessary in the Winnipeg trouble was that the Minister of Labour, who was on the job, should have used a little horse sense, and there would have been no blood shed. But instead of that, they chose to have the troops sent in. It was premeditated, it does not make very much difference, because I think if hon. members on the other side would allow the files to be brought down they would find it was all premeditated, that when the boys were being discharged or demobilized on their landing, special men who would do their bidding, were picked out to be sent to Winnipeg, and they were very careful that those who, they thought, would not do their bidding were not sent. I say the government is entirely responsible for that.

I desire to congratulate the Minister of Finance on his financial statement, and I do this very sincerely, because I consider that $22,000,000 of a surplus is something that any government might be proud of. I notice that hon. members in their speeches find different excuses why this government should not receive credit for having a surplus. I have often thought it is too bad that public men, men who aspire to be statesmen, should become so partisan in their views that they cannot even give credit where credit is due.

The hon. member for South Wellington (Mr. Guthrie) the other day in an effort to throw cold water on the surplus, actually

The Budget-Mr. Heenan

compared the financial affairs of the Dominion with that of Ontario. He said that while the statement of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb) was satisfactory at least to some extent, they could not give any credit to the government; that the credit was all due to Providence for giving a bountiful crop. On the other hand and almost in the next breath he lauded the financial condition of Ontario, and while admitting that that province had also a great crop and that Providence had been kind to Ontario, he gave the credit to the financial experts of the Conservative government of Ontario. This is what the hon. member said when he was speaking of economy:

If there is one thing which the people of this country demand at the present time, it is that the expenditure of the national government be cut down. I know of no cry throughout the province of Ontario more persistent than that government economy be exercised to the very last degree. We hear that cry in our provincial legislature, and we are pleased to note that the government of Ontario has put the finances of the province on such a footing that within a reasonable time that province will regain its former financial stability.

I was a member of the Ontario legislature for six years, resigning my seat to run in the last election. My position has not yet been filled; the government of to-day apparently consider that the north country is just as well off without a representative as with one. I would at least have thought they would try to get a Conservative to represent that district because even a Conservative is a little better than no representative. Having an interest in the financial condition of that province I secured a copy of the public accounts and this is what I find. At the end of 1922, which was the last full year of the Drury regime, the total debt of the province amounted to $240,506,176. At the end of 1925, after three years' administration of the economical Conservative government, the total debt amounted to $324,922,473, or an increase of $84,416,297.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Hugh Alexander Stewart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STEWART (Leeds):

How much of

that is included in the Hydro-Electric development?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

This is ordinary expenditures only. The argument that the government of Ontario is putting up in order to hoodwink the people is that a certain amount of this money has been expended on the Hydro-Electric which is a revenue producer. After Drury got through, the Conservative government of Ontario during the past three years added practically $67,000,000 to the debt of that province. This does not include one cent of Hydro-Electric or any other revenue producing investment. I wonder if that is 14011-209j

the manner in which the hon. member for South Wellington would like this government to run the finances of this country.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Thomas Erlin Kaiser

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. KAISER:

How much of that represents obligations incurred by Drury?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

During the last three years when the Tory government of Ontario were in power, $67,000,000 was added to the public debt on their own account and they are responsible for it. I am not trying to shield Drury or his government for whatever thev did.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Or Peter Smith.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

There are a good many

Peter Smiths only they have not been caught The hon. member for South Wellington says that the cry for economy prevails all through the province of Ontario. Let us see how this economical Conservative government answered that cry for economy. In 1922 the Drury government spent $37,000,000; in 1925, in answer to this cry for economy, the Ferguson government spent $51,000,000. I ask again, if that is the way in which the hon. member for South Wellington would like this government to economize, that is by continuing to increase expenditure notwithstanding the fact that the public debt is increasing. The Ferguson government collected $6,000,000 more from the people last year than they did in 1924 and $12,500,000 more than they did in 1923 and yet they show a deficit of $5,000,000. Is that the way in which the hon. member for South Wellington would like this government to carry on the finances of this country? As a comparison with the Drury regime because I notice the provincial treasurer all through his speech made a comparison with the last horrible year, as the Conservatives call it, of the Drury regime, I should like to point out that if last year the Tory government of Ontario had received only the same amount of money as the Drury government did in 1923 and spent the same amount as they did in 1925, they would have shown a deficit of $17,500,000 last year instead of $5,000,000.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

George Brecken Nicholson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. NICHOLSON:

As my hon. friend is

discussing provincial and not federal politics, what was the actual deficit in the last year of the so-called Drury regime?

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

I am glad my hon. friend asked me that question because I might have forgotten it. As regards discussing provincial politics I am answering one of my hon. friend's friends who tried to tell this country that the finances of Ontario are in good shape and that this government should copy that province. Hon. members will recall that the

The Budget-Mr. Heenan

provincial election took place in June, 1923, and the government changed hands in July. The Drury government spent a good deal of money that year, but hon. members will have to admit that the Tory government not only kept the books, but fixed them so that they made it the most horrible year it was possible to make it. They paid every cent they could find to pay and they urged everybody to put in their bills, saying: The going is good; come on in. On the other hand it was generally known that they encouraged people who owed money to the government to withhold their payments until the end of the fiscal year when the books were closed. It was therefore by cooking it in this way that the Conservative government of Ontario was able to show that the Drury government had practically a deficit of $15,000,000.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

George Brecken Nicholson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. NICHOLSON:

Nineteen and a half millions, my dear friend.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Peter Heenan

Liberal

Mr. HEENAN:

I should not be surprised if you were to say 90 million. After manipulating the finances of the province in this way the Conservative government of the province then compared their record with that of the Drury government, but I would again point out that if they had received only the same amount in 1925 as the Drury government received in 1923 and spent the same amount as they did, they would have a deficit of $17,500,000 in the past year.

Topic:   THE BUDGET
Subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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May 11, 1926