Mr. WOODSWORTH:

I am speaking with the hon. member's permission.

Order.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

There was the twofold consideration: on the one hand that it was impossible to conduct a judicial inquiry in a body of this character, and on the other hand that in discussing this case'-

Order.

It is another speech.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

-we could not

very well disregard other factors.

Sit down.

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order.

Mr. CAMPBELL:

Mr. Speaker, I was just coming to that when the hon. gentleman interrupted. I quite agree with him as to

the necessity for a judicial inquiry, and I may remind him that the right hon. leader of the opposition intimated to him that he was quite prepared to have that incorporated in the main amendment, but the hon. gentleman sat quietly in his seat and refused, by silence at least, to consent to that, thereby leaving his sincerity open to question. There is just one thing I will give him credit for-he was quite frank in saying that he justified his amendment on the ground of political expediency. No one, Sir, in the Dominion of Canada has condemned the old party system more severely than the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. With most of what he has said from time to time on that subject I agree, because to a large extent I belong to the same school of thought, and that is one thing that makes it particularly painful for me to disagree with him at this time; but to-day he is prepared to whitewash one of the worst scandals in the whole history of Canada on the ground of political expediency.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

If my hon. friend will permit me? I know he wants to be perfectly fair. I think he will admit that that phrase is his, not mine. I did not say I was justifying my amendment on the ground of political expediency.

Mr. CAMPBELL:

Perhaps I misunderstood the hon. gentleman. Let me quote his

remarks at page 4921 of Hansard:

So let us be frank and say that in a case of this character it is exteranely difficult for the most honest and honourable man-and I take it that despite some cheap sneers hurled across the floor the large majority of this House are honest and honourable men-I say it is very difficult in such a case for us not to be biased by partisan considerations.

I do not wish to quote further, for it seems to me it is quite obvious from that passage- and I appreciate his point-that he is justifying his action on the ground of political expediency, and the necessity, as he said, of keeping this government in power.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

I think the hon. gentleman will have to read a great deal more of my speech before he will find those words.

Mr. CAMPBELL:

Well, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman delivered a rather lengthy speech two days ago and I do not want to read it all. It is of public record, and anyone can convince himself of the fairness of my characterization by reading the speech. But I wonder what some of those poor, distressed working people, for whom he has been pleading so earnestly and so tearfully, in this House for the last five years, will think when he justifies the dismissal from their position of

.5020 COMMONS

Customs Inquiry-Mr. Campbell

civil servants because of the mud thrown up by someone bigger falling on them, and at the same time applies the whitewash brush to the real criminals higher up.

Mr. DUNNING:

Will my hon. friend

permit me a question? Does he describe the Minister of Customs as one of the "real criminals higher up"? Is that what he means? Let the House understand what is intended by "-the real criminals higher up."

Mr. CAMPBELL:

I think I made myself

quite plain at the outset. I have no intention of being drawn into any further argument with the Minister of Railways.

Mr. DUNNING:

Will he justify-

Order.

-Mr. DUNNING: Is he man enough to

justify the term?

Order. Sit down.

Mr. DUNNING:

I ask him as a man,

will he-

Sit down.