April 1, 1927

LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

My understanding is that the grain traffic in the local elevators will be under the control of the grain board.

Topic:   ST. JOHN HARBOUR COMMISSION
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UFA

Henry Elvins Spencer

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. SPENCER:

Are the tolls charged by the harbour commission subject' to approval by the governor in council?

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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

Yes, the tolls have to be

approved.

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UFA

Henry Elvins Spencer

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. SPENCER:

Is that the case with regard to the Vancouver harbour board?

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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

That is the case with all harbours. [DOT]

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UFA

Donald Ferdinand Kellner

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. KELLNER:

I do not think the Vancouver harbour commission is under the jurisdiction of the department so far as the operation of elevators is concerned. The tariffs charged by the elevators are not subject to the approval of the governor in council and when any change is required it is simply referred to the Board of Grain Commissioners.

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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

My hon.

friend is speaking of the grain elevators?

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UFA
LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

That is different from the harbour commission. In that particular case the elevators are operated by the harbour board. Of course, tolls charged by the elevators are subject to the Board of Grain Commissioners.

Topic:   ST. JOHN HARBOUR COMMISSION
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

Is it the general policy to confer powers of expropriation upon harbour commissions? Powers of expropriation are extreme, and I see by section 13 that this power is conferred on the corporation. I appreciate the fact that it mav be necessary, but in such legislation passed in the province of New Brunswick it is customary where this power is granted to make it subject to the approval of tlhe lieutenant governor in council. Of course, if that is not the practice in Dominion legislation I have no objection, but if this is a departure I think the approval of the governor in council should be required.

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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

This provision appears in the other acts. It involves capital expenditure which of course must be passed on by the governor in council.

Topic:   ST. JOHN HARBOUR COMMISSION
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CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

I appreciate that, but it is hardly the point I make.

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CON

Leslie Gordon Bell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BELL (St. John):

An understanding

has been arrived at, I believe, between the city of St. John and the minister, and the terms of the bill as presented are quite satisfactory. I should however like to make a suggestion here with regard to tolls. I have

St. John Harbour Commission

been asked by the city council to find out whether it would be possible for the government to consider including in the bill the following provision:

Rates, tolls and charges for the conduct of business shall not at present be imposed in excess of those now in force and such rates, tolls and charges shall be fixed from time to time so as to enable the port of Saint John to compete successfully with other ports and places on the Atlantic seaboard in the United States of America or elsewhere.

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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

It would not be practical to fix the rates, which must depend upon the circumstances of the port. If we' fixed the rates 'by statute we should be obliged to come back to parliament to make suich changes as might be found necessary. The rates are determined by the commission and submitted to the governor in council for approval, and that I think is the proper way to deal with the matter.

Mr. MaoLAREN: I understand that the provisions of this bill are similar to those in other acts relating to harbour commissions.

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LIB
LIB

Peter John Veniot (Postmaster General)

Liberal

Mr. VENIOT:

The rates will be fixed by the port of St. John, in whom the city council will have faith.

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CON

Leslie Gordon Bell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BELL (St. John.):

I do not think there is any desire on the part of the city to introduce any contentious question. In the past there has been some trouble in the matter of rates and the city council would like to have something definite enacted in (his regard. However, if that is not possible the bill as drawn will be satisfactory. I do not bring the question up for the purpose of criticizing the bill.

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LIB

Pierre-Joseph-Arthur Cardin (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. CARDIN:

This bill is framed to meet the recommendations of the Duncan commission, before whom representatives of St. John appeared and gave evidence. As regards the rates to be charged, I think we may safely leave this matter to the harbour commission; they will undoubtedly look after the interests of the port of S't. John. The commission will comprise men residing in the locality and taking a special interest in the development of the port, and it is only natural to assume (hat they will frame their schedule in such a way as to attract trade to the port. It is much better, I think, to leave the matter to a commission of local men rather than to officers residing in Ottawa. We should have some confidence in the men who are to be appointed as commissioners and we can safely rely on them.

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CON
CON

Richard Burpee Hanson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HANSON:

The minister will agree

that the success or failure of the traffic through the port will depend on whether the tolls are reasonable or excessive.

Topic:   ST. JOHN HARBOUR COMMISSION
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April 1, 1927