June 13, 1929

CON

George Halsey Perley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

Is he in one of

the government offices.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Yes, and the others are located at various points throughout the United Kingdom.

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Item agreed to. Grant to the Department of Agriculture, province of Nova Scotia, to complete amortization of the debt against the science building at the Agricultural college, Truro, Nova Scotia, $8,389.08.


UFA

Robert Gardiner

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARDINER:

Is this the last payment necessary to complete this contract?

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LIB

Item agreed to. Dairying, including grant of $5,000 to the National Dairy Council and necessary new buildings, $295,000.


UFA

William Thomas Lucas

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. LUCAS:

Will the minister explain the increase in this item?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

This is for a

laboratory to be established at the experimental farm. It is primarily for the purpose of giving us accommodation for conducting our research work in dairying. We have a very important export product in cheese and occasionally we have found trouble with bacteria. It takes some time to develop and we have found difficulty in discovering it without more up to date equipment than we have at the present time. For instance, in Grenville county recently-and the hon. member for that constituency spoke to me about the matter-there was some difficulty in connection with shipments of cheese from certain factories. It was discovered that after the cheese was of a certain age it developed deleterious bacteria. Complaints were made and we took up the problem even with the facilities that we have in this city, and found out the cause of the bacterial action. We discovered that it was due to the preservative that was put in the curd and that should not have been put in. It was thought proper to add saltpetre to cheese to discourage the development of certain flavours. But it was found to have the opposite effect. It was a good thing that this was discovered before it had continued for any length of time, because a number of cheese factories were pursuing this practice and they were notified to 78594-233^ .

discontinue it. Instead of preserving the cheese, it had the opposite effect. We want to do work of that nature expeditiously so as to check any unwise or harmful practice before it adversely affects the cheese.

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CON

William Earl Rowe

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROWE:

How many new inspectors are included in this vote?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

I do not think any particular inspectors will be necessary on account of the establishment of this laboratory. I think we shall have to have one or two more graders for the purpose of keeping track of the work. This trouble got quite a start before it was drawn to our attention. As a matter of fact it did not develop until the cheese got across the water, and we want to keep closer tab than we are able to do at present. We want to lock the door before the horse is stolen, before any danger arises, and that is why we require these additional facilities.

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UFA

Robert Gardiner

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARDINER:

I notice a grant of

$5,000 to the National Dairy Council. What, in the minister's opinion, are the functions of that council? Is it primarily political, for the purpose of advocating an increased tariff on dairy products?

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

This institution was organized before I had anything to do with the Department of Agriculture, but I have found it a very useful organization in promoting the cause of dairying.

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UFA
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

It was organized before I came here, but I do not consider it the better or the worse for that. I remember the late D'Arey Scott, the secretary, and the late Mr. Stonehouse, the president, were there when I had first to do with it. I found they were very efficient officers working for the general promotion of the dairying industry throughout Canada. I have reason to think the activities in that direction are quite as useful still. If my hon. friend has anything he wishes to bring to my attention with regard to the activities of the National Dairy Council, I think I have under my hand a statement with regard to what they are engaged in doing.

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UFA

Edward Joseph Garland

United Farmers of Alberta

Mr. GARLAND (Bow River):

Does the minister not think that the activities of the National Dairy Council have, for the past two years, been directed very largely towards the cause of the protectionist, rather than to the improvement of the dairy industry?

Supply-Agriculture

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

May I first read

this memorandum:

The National Dairy Council is an association composed of representatives of the various branches of the dairy industry. It was originally formed for the purpose of advancing the dairy industry throughout Canada by taking such steps both legal and otherwise as would best bring about the end in view.

One of its first activities consisted in the efforts made to have legislation passed prohibiting the importation, manufacture and sale of oleomargarine in Canada. It has also been of considerable service to the dairy industry, through representations to the Board of Railway Commissioners, in having conditions improved and freight charges adjusted in connection with the transportation of dairy produce generally.

The organizations represented in the National Dairy Council are as follows:-

British Columbia Dairymen's Association.

Alberta Dairymen's Association.

Western Ice Cream Manufacturers.

Alberta Producers' Association.

Saskatchewan Dairy Association.

Western Butter Manufacturers.

Manitoba Dairy Association.

Western Milk Distributors.

Dairymen's Association of Western Ontario.

Eastern Ontario Dairymen's Association.

Canadian Creamery Association.

The Ontario Milk Producers' Association.

Canadian Association of Ice Cream Mgrs.

Condensed Milk and Powdered Milk Interests.

Quebec Dairy Association.

Montreal Milk Producers' Association.

Montreal Milk Distributors.

Canadian Produce Merchants' Ass'n.

New Brunswick Dairymen United.

Nova Scotia Dairymen's Association.

Prince Edward Island Dairy Association.

Holstein-Friesian Association.

Canadian Ayrshire Breeders' Association.

Canadian Jersey Cattle Club.

The newly elected president is Mr. F. E. M. Robinson, of Richmond, Quebec, while the secretary-treasurer is W. F. Stephen, of Ottawa, Ontario. The National Dairy Council obtains a grant from the federal government of $5,000 per annum.

I gather from the remarks of the hon. member for Bow River that he thinks these gentlemen have something akin to protective ideas with respect to their industry.

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?

Percy John Rowe

Mr. ROWTE:

They should have too.

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LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Does my hon. friend think that with these grants should go a condition that these people circumscribe their views with regard to certain questions? Should I say to Toronto, for instance, which gets a large number of grants: "You must not be so protectionist as you are." I do not see how I could do that effectively.

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CON
LIB

William Richard Motherwell (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. MOTHERWELL:

Speaking quite

seriously, I do not see how we can in a democratic country give grants of this nature and

then dictate what the recipient shall or shall not discuss. I remember that when I was connected with a grain growers' organization myself in the old territorial days we got a very modest grant of $250 from a Conservative minister of agriculture, and I can imagine what remark I would have made if he had said: "We will give you this grant but you must say and talk about the things I want you to talk about." I do not think I would have taken the grant under those conditions, and I likely would have had something to say besides. I cannot imagine any line of advice that could be given to the recipients of these grants that would not be considered wholly objectionable under our conception of demo-cractic government. We are making dozens and scores and hundreds of grants of one kind and another all over Canada, and we have never thought of imposing any such conditions. I may say to my hon. friend that I have suggested to different organizations that it would be easier for me to continue the grants they were receiving if they were not so free in discussing controversial questions at certain times, but I have never thought of imposing any conditions upon them; I just pointed out my difficulties. We have an example of those difficulties right now in the criticism of the hon. member for Bow River, whose opinion I usually regard with high favour, but not this one.

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June 13, 1929