Mr. CASGRAIN:

The man who founded

Clark City about twenty-five or thirty years ago was the uncle of the men who operate the steamship company and who own the Gidf of St. Lawrence Paper Company, Limited. The company at Clark City and the Anglo-Canadian Pulp and Paper Company, I may say, are financed by English capital furnished by the Rothermere interests in England, who own one of the largest newspaper concerns in the old country.

Mr. MANION:

Are the Clarks who run

the steamship line interested in this?

Mr. CASGRAIN:

No, it is a different

company.

Mr. MANION:

But are they interested in this?

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I do not think so.

Mr. POULIOT:

But both gave their name to the city and the steamship company. I think the chief whip has made a very good defence of the item for the member for Charlevoix-Saguenay (Mr. Casgrain).

Mr. MANION:

"Defence" is a good word.

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

Are there any

operations going on there at present; are they making paper now?

Mr. CASGRAIN:

At the present time these people cannot start to operate and cannot fulfil their contract with the provincial government, and no work can be carried on in that district until this wharf is built. In the course of a few months or a year there will be a town located there, but at present it is a wilderness with rocks, cliffs, mountains, hills and forest. Last summer the townsite was cleared up and laid out by a company under the control of these two companies; much of that work has been done, and I remember being told by some of the officers of these two companies that during last summer between 300 and 400 people ware employed on this work.

Supply-Harbours and Rivers-Quebec

Mr. MANION:

How many men do they

expect to employ in the paper mill, and when do they expect to turn out paper?

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I cannot very well give that information but it must be in the hands of the minister, because when these people applied for this work I think they deposited with the minister a copy of the contract with the provincial government. The provincial government called upon these companies to start work within a given period, and they will turn out the finished product in the province of Quebec.

Sir GEORGE PERLEY:

Taking into consideration the present condition of the paper trade does not my hon. friend think it would be just as well if this company did not start work too soon?

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I believe that question

was discussed last year. Hon. members will recall that a few years ago, I think in 1927, an amount of $100,000 was placed in the estimates in order to start the work that year, but the following year that item was dropped because at that time there seemed to be some unsettlement in the pulp and paper business. Since then pressure has been brought to bear on these two companies to proceed with the work, and those interested in the pulp and paper industry are satisfied that work may be started now, because it is hoped that in the very near future the situation to which my hon. friend has referred will be adjusted.

Mr. SHORT:

It was only last year, I think, that a similar amount was in the estimates for another paper concern down in Anticosti, in this same constituency. This seems to be a pretty large amount for this government to be giving a private concern. We might build pulp mills all over the country if we could get the government to contribute $200,000, $300,000 or $400,000 in order to start things going. It is almost impossible for us in the maritime provinces to get grants in order to carry on our general business and to repair the breakwaters and piers which we aleady have, but it is nothing for the province of Quebec to get S275,000 or S300.000 for the assistance of some pulp mill. If this pulp mill has received such wonderful concessions from the provincial government of Quebec, it seems to me it should be in a position to build its own wharf.

Mr. ADSHEAD:

Will this be a company town, in the ordinary sense of the word?

Mr. CASGRAIN:

No, it is going to be a

public town and is to be called Taschereau. It will be built and operated under the act which regulates such townships and municipalities in the province of Quebec.

Mr. POULIOT:

Now I have the secret of

the grants and concessions that have been made by the Quebec provincial government. These Americans came to the government and said, "We want this and that, and we will give the name of the Premier to the town we intend to build." So then the Premier said, "Carried; you may have it." I think these people showed great ability in securing what they requested; they were very keen and very astute in getting these privileges from the province of Quebec. I have not a word of criticism for the chief whip of the Liberal party, nor do I suggest that he should not get a substantial amount of money for these improvements.

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I do not get it personally; my people will enjoy the privileges.

Mr. POULIOT:

I never thought my hon.

friend was to do the dredging himself, but I am sure it will be for the benefit of his constituents. I am not so narrow minded as to ask these people to change the name of the town, but that gives me the answer to the whole problem. I should not have spoken on this item at all if some mention had not been made of grants by the provincial government. I think we should be very careful, not in the amounts which are asked for by my hon. friend from Charlevoix-Saguenay, but in connection with these contracts which are entered into by the Quebec government with foreigners. It seems to me that when a foreigner comes to the Quebec government for a grant he has a greater chance of getting it than a native son of Canada would have. That is why I bring this matter to the attention of the committee. I am not criticizing the item; I think my hon. friend has done right in looking after his constituents and trying to improve conditions in his constituency, but I think in future the depai-tment should be very careful in any assistance it may give to companies having contracts with the Quebec government.

Mr. BOYS:

Am I correct in my understanding that the contract was completed in 1927?