May 12, 1930

CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

What about the sales

tax?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I am going to speak about that in a moment. I hope to satisfy my hon. friend on the sales tax. I am going to repeat to-day what I have said on former occasions with respect to the sales tax. I have no quarrel with his statement that the $147,000,000 which he sets out in some detail in his speech the other day should be added-and is added-to the general revenues of the country. He states-and I want to

The Budget-Mr. Stewart (Edmonton)

make it clear that it is his statement-that we are not entitled to all the credit that we are seeking to take for the reduction of the public debt by $257,000,000. I say to the hon. gentleman-and I think he says so himself-that there is nothing new about the $147,000,000 that he referred to. It has always been the same, there is no increase in it, it was the same in 1923 as it is in 19(29; therefore it cannot be very well taken into account except that it swells the general sum of taxation. Let me be clear about this. The general taxation, or the turnover tax on business, although it was reduced, produced more money. How? By the increased volume of business. But it did more. It reduced the general taxation per capita. That is what happened, and that is what my hon. friend did not make clear to the Canadian people when he was making that statement. It is not an increase of taxation upon the individual, but rather the reverse. That is the real situation with respect to the statement of my hon. friend that this government increased the general taxation.

Let me deal for a moment with the sales tax. My hon. friend pointed out that in 1923 this government found the sales tax at 3 per cent. But how did we find it applied? It was applied upon the general sales throughout the country. Every hon. member will recall the agitation that was in effect throughout the country with respect to the collection of this tax. Every retailer had to make a return. It was a most exasperating tax. Not only that, but may I tell my hon. friend from Lincoln-who no doubt will remember this-that that tax was pyramided, sometimes as much as 8 per cent, upon commodities purchased by the consumers of this country.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

So was the 6 per cent pyramided.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I have no recollection that the 6 per cent tax was pyramided. The 6 per cent tax was collected, and was designed to be collected, either at the entry of the goods or when they were manufactured. Some complaint was made that the tax was passed on to the consumers on the various sales.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Peter McGibbon

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. McGIBBON:

Pyramided as it went.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Only to the extent of the first tax. If my hon. friend means that they were pyramided because there were subsequent sales made plus taxes, yes; I certainly agree as to that; but^ that is not pyramiding. That is not collecting a tax every time a sale takes place. Take a suit of clothes, for example.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. MEMBER:

Somebody else collected a tax every time a sale took place.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

My hon. friends can make nothing of that. There is no comparison whatever with the pyramiding of taxes of which I am complaining. The tax was one collected on every transaction. The turnover was derived on every transaction from the date of the entry of the cloth that went to make a suit of clothes, through the wholesalers to the tailors and passed on to the customer; in every one of those transactions a tax was collected. That is what we were complaining about, and that is what I hope my hon. friends will take the precaution to understand when they state that we materially increased the sales tax when we made it 6 per cent. I hope I have made that matter clear, and that we shall not again hear the statement boldly made that we increased the sales tax and that we are not to be credited because of the fact that we increased it from 3 per cent to 6 per cent.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

Did you not increase it to 6 per cent?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Yes.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

James Dew Chaplin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CHAPLIN:

What are the amounts collected each year for sales tax?

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

If my hon. friend will consult Hansard he will find a statement made by my hon. friend the leader of the opposition (Mr. Bennett).

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

As long as my hon. friend admits it was increased to 6 per cent I am satisfied.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

I shall now direct my remarks to a few items in the tariff. There is one statement to which I shall refer before I deal with particular items, that is a statement made by my hon. friend the leader of the opposition. I forget the name of the person to whom my hon. friend attributed the statement but he is reported to have stated that so far as the empire is concerned a factory in Canada was as good as a factory in England. I think that statement is correct.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

That is the sense of the statement which I made. To be more accurate, I quoted the statement that a woollen factory in Canada is as valuable an asset to the empire as a woollen factory in Yorkshire.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

With that statement I have no particular quarrel. I believe that a free interchange of commodities or as near as possible a free interchange within

1976 COMMONS

The Budget-Mr. Stewart (Edmonton)

the empire would be very desirable. I know there are people who do not believe in such a policy. I do not believe that my hon. friends opposite believe in it, because my hon. friend the leader of the opposition made the statement a short time ago in this house that we would have to exercise due care and that we would have to see whether or not our business interests were going to be affected. So far as I am aware we have not bargained to any extent in that particular respect, but I wish to reiterate that as far as our preference to Great Britain is concerned there is no bargaining in connection with it. We have offered it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

The preference is not limited to Great Britain.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

It is limited to Great Britain and her colonies.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Richard Bedford Bennett (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT:

No, it is the British Empire to which it is limited.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles A. Stewart (Minister of Immigration and Colonization; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs; Minister of Mines; Minister of the Interior)

Liberal

Mr. STEWART (Edmonton):

Oh, yes, I

beg your pardon; it is the British Empire. I do not expect that the budget has pleased my hon. friend in that respect, and I did not think for one minute that it would please him. The reduction in the British preferential tariff number 270 as against 11 increases and as a result of this budget 589 items in a total of 1,188 are entirely free under the British preferential tariff. Let me say in passing: Wipe off the hay and straw and the hundred items to which my hon. friend has so often referred; throw them into the discard.

Topic:   QUESTIONS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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May 12, 1930