Explain.

International Conventions-Mr. Bennett

Mr. SPENCER:

My object in introducing this bill, Mr. Speaker, is similar to that I had a year ago when I introduced a bill with regard to the limitation of interest that may be charged iby a bank. The main difference in this bill, as compared with the one of a year ago, is that the penalty clauses are somewhat milder. This has been done because of the criticism made in this house a year ago that the penalties then suggested were too severe.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Prime Minister) moved:

That it is expedient that parliament do approve of the international convention for the amelioration of the condition of the wounded and sick in armies in the field, Geneva, July 27, 1929, signed on behalf of Canada by the plenipotentiary named therein, on January 29, 1930, subject to the following reservation:-

"That the government of the Dominion of Canada will interpret article 28 of the convention in the sense that the legislative measures contemplated by that article may provide that private individuals, associations, firms or companies who have used the arms of the Swiss confederation, or marks constituting an imitation thereof, for any lawful purpose before the coming into force of the present convention shall not be prevented from continuing to use such arms or marks for the same purpose,"

and that this house do approve of the same, subject to the said reservation.

He said: Mr. Speaker, the resolution which

has been standing on the order paper for some few days asks this house to ratify and confirm, with the reservation indicated, the convention signed at Geneva on the 27th July, 1929, and finally executed as far as this country is concerned on the 29th January, 1930, by Doctor Riddell on behalf of Canada.

I suppose there are few instances in history of the influence of one man having such far-reaching consequences as is the case of Henri Dunant who, after the battle of Solferino, viewing the results of war close at hand, seeing wounded left to die in pain and under conditions almost indescribable, concluded that some action should be taken by which agreements would be arrived at by those at war to prevent a recurrence of conditions such as those he saw. The result was that on the 22nd day of August, 1864, at Geneva, a convention was signed whereby practically all the nations of the world agreed that in the event

of war the wounded would be cared for under conditions that to some extent at least would ensure the possibility of their recovery.

That convention was subsequently amended on July 6, 1906, but the experience of the great war made it desirable that further amendments should be made, and conferences of the International Red Cross Association and of the parent Red Cross organization established by Dunant made it essential that those changes should be considered by all the nations of the world who were signatories to the covenant of the League of Nations, and indeed those who were not. The result is the international convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armies in the Field, which was laid upon the table of this house a few days ago. I may say that the convention has been signed by the following states: Germany; the United States of America; Australia; Belgium; Bolivia; Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and all parts of the British Empire which are not separate members of the League of Nations; France; Greece; Hungary; Italy; Japan; Latvia; Luxemburg; Mexico; Nicaragua; Norway; Netherlands; Persia; Poland; Portugal; Roumania; the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes; Siams; Switzerland; Czechoslovakia; Turkey; Uruguay and Venezuela. The order in which I have read the names of these countries is the order in which the convention was signed.

I do not think it desirable to take up the time of the house in referring to the particular provisions of the convention, for I assume that members of the house have availed themselves of their opportunity to read the convention as a whole. I may say shortly, however, that this convention provides for care and attention being given to the wounded and sick and their removal from the field of hostilities, under the protection of the Red Cross flag, and the establishment as far as may be possible of a neutral zone during the period in which those who are sick and wounded are being so removed, at least to some safe portion of the battlefield. I will not do further than read the heads of the chapters. After providing for the care of the wounded and sick officers and soldiers, it is provided that the occupant of the field of battle shall take measures to search for the wounded and dead and protect them against pillage and maltreatment and that wherever circumstances permit a local armistice or a suspension of fire shall be arranged to permit the removal of the wounded remaining between the lines. It provides for medical formations and establishments which are intended to ac-

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Mr. Bennett

company armies in the field, and that the fixed establishments of the medical service shall be respected and protected by the belligerents. Then there are provisions as to personnel, as to buildings and materials, mobile medical formations, buildings of aid societies, which shall be regarded as private property; the provision of medical transport, and then this provision which gives to the operations of the Red Cross organization its peculiar effectiveness. Chapter 6, article 19, deals with the distinctive emblem:

As a compliment to Switzerland, the heraldic emblem of the red cross on a white ground, formed by reversing the federal colours, is retained as the emblem and distinctive sign of the medical service of armed forces.

Nevertheless, in the case of countries which already use, in place of the red cross, the red crescent or the red lion and sun on a white ground as a distinctive sign, these emblems are also recognized by the terms of the present convention.

Article 20

The emblem shall figure on the flags, armlets, and on all material belonging to the medical service, with the permission of the competent military authority.

The application and execution of the convention are provided for, as well as the suppression of abuses and infractions, to which I shall make reference. When Great Britain signed the convention a limitation or restriction was placed upon its operation, and' the same may be said with respect to the signature by Canada. I shall read article 28:

The governments of the high contracting parties whose legislation is not at present adequate for the purpose, shall adopt or propose to their legislatures the measures necessary to prevent at all times:-

(a) the use of the emblem or designation "Red Cross" or "Geneva Cross" by private individuals or associations, firms or companies, other than those entitled thereto under the present convention, as well as the use of any sign or designation constituting an imitation, for commercial or any other purposes;

(b) by reason of the compliment paid to Switzerland by the adoption of the reversed federal colours, the use by private individuals or associations, firms or companies of the arms of the Swiss confederation, or marks constituting an imitation, whether as trade marks or as parts of such marks, for a purpose contrary to commercial honesty, or in circumstances capable of wounding Swiss national sentiment.

The prohibition indicated in (a) of the use of marks or designations constituting an imitation of the emblem or designation of "Red Cross" or "Geneva Cross," as well as the prohibition in (b) of the use of the arms of the Swiss confederation or marks constituting an imitation, shall take effect as from the date fixed by each legislature, and not later than five years after the coming into force of the present convention. From the date of such coming into force, it shall no longer be lawful

to adopt a trade mark in contravention of these rules.

It will be observed that the signature of the British representative, Sir Horace Rumbold, at page IS of the convention, follows these words:

I declare that my signature of this convention in respect of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and all parts of the British Empire which are not separate members of the League of Nations is subject to the understanding that His Britannic Majesty will interpret article 28 of the convention in the sense that the legislative measures contemplated by that article may provide that private individuals, associations, firms or companies who have used the arms of the Swiss confederation, or marks constituting an imitation thereof, for any lawful purpose before the coming into force of the present convention shall not be prevented from continuing to use such arms or marks for the same purpose.

And when Canada signed, the following declaration was made by Doctor Riddell:

I declare that my signature of this convention in respect of Canada is subject to the understanding that the government of the Dominion of Canada will interpret article 28 of the convention in the sense that the legislative measures contemplated by that article may provide that private individuals, associations, firms or companies who have used the arms of the Swiss confederation, or marks constituting an imitation thereof, for any lawful purpose before the coming into force of the present convention shall not be prevented from continuing to use such arms or marks for the same purpose.

The same reservation was made for Australia, New Zealand, the Irish Free State and India. The legislative provision contemplated by article 28 is contained in the bill which was introduced a few days ago by the Secretary of State in connection with unfair competition. So that the use of the heraldic device, to which reference is made in the convention, and from which as a matter of fact it derives its ordinary name, Red Cross convention, will now be prohibited except with respect to those who have used it prior to the date of the convention.

I do not think it is necessary to make a more lengthy explanation with respect to this convention, for I take it that all those who contributed to the activities of the Red Cross during the great war realize the tremendous amount of work that was done in Canada for the sick and wounded; and there are many in this house, medical men, who participated in the medical services that are protected by the convention. Under the circumstances it is not necessary that I should do more than move the adoption of the resolution standing in my name.

Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Prime Minister) moved:

That it is expedient that parliament do approve of the international convention relative to the treatment of prisoners of war, Geneva, July 27, 1929, signed on behalf of Canada by the plenipotentiary named therein, on January 29, 1930, and that this house do approve of the same.

He said: It may be said that the history of the convention relating to the treatment of prisoners of war has to some extent followed, and been parallel with, the history of the measures that have been taken for the alleviation of the condition of the sick and wounded in war; but there are perhaps some principles to which reference might be made dealing with the treatment of prisoners of war, which the experience of the great war made it essential should be adopted in the convention that was signed on July 27, 1929, and to which Canada became a party on the 29th day of January, 1930. I will not read the names of the signatories who signified their approval and acceptance of the provisions of the convention. It is sufficient for my purpose to indicate that the same nations that signed the Red Cross convention, so-called, also executed the convention which I am now asking the house to ratify. A few observations might be made, however, of a historic character, with respect to this convention.

The principles which now govern the treatment of prisoners of war were laid down in the second convention of the Hague conference in 1899 and were entitled, "Rules respecting the laws and customs of war on land." They were revised in 1907 at the second conference, being the fourth of such conventions. These conventions and the regulations annexed thereto cover the subject matter very extensively. They were adhered to by nearly all the nations and may be considered to some extent the basis of the international convention relative to the treatment of prisoners of war now before the house. After the war, however, it became apparent, in the light of the experience of the combatants and the knowledge that was gained by neutral countries, particularly Switzerland, that some improvement should be made, and accordingly inquiries were instituted and matters were discussed very carefully at the tenth international conference of Red Cross societies held at Geneva in 1921. This undertook the preparation of an international code relating to prisoners of war. Regulations were prepared by an international committee under the chairmanship of Lord Justice Younger,

the present Lord Blanesburgh which sat at the Hague in 1921, and at the eleventh convention of the International Red Cross Society at Geneva in 1923 the Red Cross societies put forward an elaborate draft convention on this subject. In 1924 the International Red Cross committee proposed that the question of preparing an international code relating to prisoners of war should be laid before a diplomatic conference, and in the meantime the proper authorities of the British and Canadian governments were giving attention to the report of the Younger committee to which I have just referred. In August, 1925, the Swiss government inquired -whether the governments concerned would be willing to take part in a conference for the ratification of the Geneva convention of July 6, 1906, and

whether they would agree to entrust to a diplomatic conference for the ratification of the Geneva convention the task of preparing a code for prisoners of war. In 1929, the year in which this convention was executed, the proposals of the Swiss government were accepted. The diplomatic conference to which I have referred was held at Geneva for the purpose of revising the Red Cross convention of 1906 and preparing a code relating to prisoners of war. As I have indicated, this convention was signed by the Canadian representative in January, 1930.

The convention with which we are now dealing covers the efforts to be made to take care of those who may become prisoners by capture or otherwise during the progress of hostilities. I do not know that any good purpose will be served by taking up further the time of the house except to say that no legislation will be necessary at the present time. Practically all the countries have -ratified the convention.

I hope -the time may be long distant when we -Canadians will be again called upon to deal with the complex problems which arise out of our nationals becoming prisoners of war. The exchange of prisoners, the care of prisoners, the providing of food and comforts, the inspection as -far as it may be possible through the aid of neutrals of the facilities provided -for t-heir care, all -these are matters of which I think every h-on. member of this house has some knowledge. I do not think there is any hon. member who during the period from 1914 to 1918 had not to deal with some -phase of the question arising out of Canadians becoming prisoners of war, or who through the Red Cross societies did not give some support or succour to prisoners.

In this regard all countries owe a great debt to Switzerland. The Swiss republic has taken the lead in connection with matters of this

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kind and since the first convention at Geneva held in 1864, to which the experience of the British gained in tlhe Crimean war was very important, this republic has continued to make a great contribution to these subjects. The organized efforts which have been made by the head of the Red Cross organization, very frequently a Swiss citizen, and the work which has been done at the Hague in connection with prisoners of war, merit the thanks of every country in the world. I bear gladly this testimony to the zeal with which the Swiss statesmen and public men and women have devoted themselves to this matter.

Mr. J. S. WOODSWORTH (Winnipeg North Centre):

Mr. Speaker, this convention would appear to be somewhat of an anachronism. There may have been the necessity of caring for the sick in the field and the proper care of prisoners during the last war, but I understood that nearly all the civilized nations of the world had signed a solemn pact that they would abandon war as a means of settling international disputes. It would seem to me that the putting forward of conventions of this kind is evidence that we, together with other nations, do not take our obligations very seriously. I ask the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett)" if he does not consider that there is a very decided danger in introducing conventions of this kind, that it might weaken our confidence in the obligations which we have undertaken under the Kellogg and other pacts.

Mr. BENNETT:

The fact that nations have taken this precaution to care for the sick, wounded and prisoners in the event of war must be considered along with their declarations that there will be no wars as acts of national policy. It is well to remember that even in the covenant of the League of Nations there were certain, shall I say, punitive provisions which indicated the possibility at least of a police force finding it necessary to maintain the position taken by the league. In any event, in the two conventions to which I have alluded in the event of human nature not being perfect and the imperfections of mankind being manifested by war in the manner indicated, that antecedent provision has been made to ensure that the calls of humanity shall be observed to the greatest possible extent as against the weaknesses of frail mankind.

Hon. J. L. RALSTON (Shelburne-Yar-mouth):

Mr. Speaker, I desire to ask

leave of the house to move the adjournment to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance in connection with the dismissal of between two and three hundred officers and men of the Royal Canadian Air Force without regard to their families, their overseas service or period of enlistment, and the embarrassing situation which may arise if they are forced by the necessity of employment to accept service with another nation. I submit that the matter is one of urgent public importance because of the lack of notice given and the necessity with which this great body of young Canadians is faced in order to make arrangements for employment.

Mr. BENNETT:

The leave should precede the speech.

Mr. RALSTON:

I am making only a

statement.

Mr. SPEAKER:

The rule requires an hon. member making such a request to state the matter, not to argue it, and the time has arrived when a written statement should be handed to the Speaker. The house knows that I allow as much latitude as possible in debate but I cannot find that this application is in order nor that it is of urgent public importance. May provides for this procedure as follows:

Though the responsibility of bringing forward a subject as a definite matter of urgent public importance rests with the member who desires to exercise the right given by the standing order, there must be a prima facie case of urgency.

I do not think a prima facie case of urgency exists. I quote again from May at page 248, as follows:

Motions for adjournment regarding matters for the discussion of which the committee of supply or other appointed business would afford an early opportunity or a matter which is under the consideration of a select committee have been ruled to be out of order.

Last evening upon the adjournment of the house the Minister of Justice (Mr. Guthrie) gave notice that to-day the house would go into supply, and this matter could be discussed when that motion is made.