Mr. POWER:

I do not know whether it is written or verbal.

Mr. GORDON:

I suppose the premier or

the government of Quebec agreed to the plan. Personally I can only reaffirm what I said before. I cannot be persuaded that the premier of any province in this country is going to deny to any needy, worthy and destitute person, the benefits which may flow from the legislation of that province or of this government. I may be quite unsophisticated, not having been in politics very long and being a newcomer to this chamber. For that reason I may not quite appreciate the refinements-and I use that word advisedly-of political life. But so long as I can, I should like to believe that those who administer the public affairs of th;s country and of the provinces, regardless of political complexion, will adopt no attitude that would be unfair, indeed cruel, to those who are entitled to help from this government, from the provinces or from the municipalities.

Mr. WOODSWORTH:

I think the committee is entitled to know whether there is an actual arrangement along the lines indicated by the hon. member for Quebec South. The minister is in charge of the department and he ought to know whether there is such an arrangement.

Mr. GORDON:

I will give the hon. member the benefit of all I do know about it, and it is this. In the working out of the legislation in each province it was considered advisable in the opinion of the government and in the opinion of the provinces that some representative of the federal government should be appointed to survey the work going on and the method employed in connection with the funds being contributed, not only by this government but by others. Reports are made almost daily as to the conditions prevailing in different localities and as to the way the work is being carried on. I shall be glad to look up this information before this debate is closed and give detailed information to the hon. member with respect to whether or not there exists such an agreement as has been suggested.

Mr. MARCIL:

I had the pleasure some time ago of sending to the minister a copy

Unemployment-Agreements with Provinces

of a resolution passed by the county council of my constituency asking for an extension of time to carry on works authorized by this and the provincial governments. These works have not been proceeded with owing to climatic conditions and it will not be possible to proceed with their completion until May or perhaps June. I should like to know what consideration has been given to this request and whether or not everything is to be dropped on May 1? I might add that the county council represents all the municipalities in the county.

Mr. GORDON:

I was just coming to the point raised by the hon. member. At the conference held on April 9 with the provincial premiers and where, as I have said, there was a degree of unanimity as to the course to be pursued with respect to works which were under way or to be dropped, a conclusion was reached which was reflected in a telegram despatched to the premiers of the provinces. Perhaps I should read this telegram in order that it may go upon record. It reads:

Referring to clause 13 of agreement between Dominion and province providing that all works shall be completed not later than first day of May, 1932, would inform you with regard to extensions of time beyond this date as follows:

Firstly, the time for concluding all works presently under way and not capable of being finished before first of May next may be extended to permit of such works being finished provided that such works are, in the opinion of the provincial and federal governments, of such a kind and character that the stopping of same would cause loss by reason of their non-completion, for example in the case of buildings, sewers and works of like character;

Secondly, where contractual undischarged obligations under entire contracts exist, the time for completing such works in order to fulfil such contracts and discharge such obligations may be extended;

Thirdly, works, such as roadwork, will be discontinued on the present basis and following your expression of view at recent conference between provinces and Dominion, the Dominion agrees to your proposal to contribute under agreements to be hereinafter entered into, toward direct relief and subsistence.

That statement is founded upon the assumption that this house will agree in the legislation presently to be brought down.

Would request you forward list of schedules recommended for extension soon as possible with dates to which extension is desired so that same may be considered and formal approval given such as approved.

At the time of the conference the premier of Quebec suggested that his province would grant assistance towards the carrying out of the ideas contained in the telegram I have

just read, and stated that be would have a representative from his province come to Ottawa in order that we might have the benefit of his guidance and advice. On the day before this telegram was despatched, I addressed the following letter to the premier of Quebec:

You will recall that when we had the conference with the various provincial representatives you suggested that in order to minimize as far as possible the carrying on of works under the present program passed the end of this month, you would send a representative of your government to Ottawa to cooperate with the officials of my department in order to detail what works should be completed and what works could be abandoned.

I have given this matter some thought since the conference and I am persuaded that your suggestion is a good one. I would be pleased, therefore, if you would send a representative of your government who could check over works presently in hand in the province of Quebec with the officials of my department so that we may have the benefit of your representative's advice as to what works must be concluded, and what works may be set aside.

Under date of April 23 I received the following answer both to my telegram and letter:

I duly received your telegram of the 21st and your letter of the 20th instant, and beg to confirm the telegram which I sent you this morning, and which reads as follows:

"Letter and telegram received. We approve of general plan as outlined by you. Writing."

I think that your plan, as detailed in your letter, is on the lines which were discussed at the late conference. We are having prepared a list of the works actually commenced in our province and, as soon as completed, early next week, a representative of our province will go to Ottawa to discuss that matter with your officers.

Yours sincerely,

L. A. Taschereau.

The hon. member for Bonaventure (Mr. Marcill can see the course which has been outlined. Of course, I am not acquainted with the situation in the hon. member's constituency to which he refers, but I have no doubt that the provincial government is well acquainted with this situation and that it can be taken up with and satisfactorily disposed of by the officers of my department and the official from Quebec.

Mr. MARCIL:

Will the minister be kind enough to bring down a copy of the list in connection with Quebec?

Mr. GORDON:

I shall be very glad to

show the hon. member the list.

Mr. YOUNG:

The minister referred to the willingness of the government to contribute to a fund which any province might be willing to raise for the purpose of restoring ex-

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Unemployment-Agreements with Provinces

farmers to the land. The resolution states that the government shall have power to loan money to any province for any purpose whatsoever. Are we to understand that the government can loan money to a province in order to establish a man on the land and then make its own contribution?

Mr. GORDON:

This government would

not loan money to a province in order to enable it to pay its share unless the province, like some of the western provinces, found itself to be in such a position financially, as to be unable to pay its share. If agreements can be made with the provinces, we are prepared to capitalize for a period ahead. As I said, one of the provinces has suggested that the fund should not be less than, I think, $400; another has suggested $500 and another, $600. They were very modest amounts. In the case of a family on direct relief, a family selected I trust by a body of people who understand something about farming and who will prepare a list free of poor selections, we will capitalize ahead the sum we feel we would have to pay as a contribution for direct relief, and the dominion, the province and the municipality affected will contribute in equal parts. That is the present scheme, although it has not been reduced to writing with any of the. provinces. The whole sum would not be given to the individual but advanced to him as he gets settled on the land, and everyone who is able to become self-supporting in that way will at least be off the unemployment shelf for a time and will be able to take care of himself and his family. Some of them may not stay there, but undoubtedly some will. Others, when times get better, and I hope that that will not be too long delayed, will no doubt be attracted back to industry in the cities where they formerly received good wages. That in general is what I have in mind, and that is the substance of the communications which I have made to the various western provinces particularly, in answer to the proposition put forward.

Mr. YOUNG:

That does not answer the

question. The question is, will this government be willing, in addition to advancing the three or four or five hundred dollars, as the case may be, to advance to the province its share of the undertaking?

Mr. GORDON:

A loan to the province?

Mr. YOUNG:

A loan to the province to

be advanced to the settlers.

Mr. GORDON:

If the province enters into an agreement such as I have indicated, and finds that by reason of the paucity of money in the province it is not able to advance its share, then the question of a loan to the province-I presume the hon. member has in mind a loan on the security of treasury bills or some other satisfactory security- would have to be taken into consideration. Speaking at the moment for myself only-I cannot speak for the government-I would say that this government would loan the province its share of the contribution, but I imagine that that matter will be referred to in the bill.

Mr. YOUNG:

And would you advance to municipalities also which are unable to carry one-third of the cost?.

Mr. GORDON:

No. The municipalities are the creature of the province, as the hon. member knows, and we do not deal with them. It would be hopeless if we started in to do that.

Mr. HEAPS:

There is one matter which the minister has not referred to, and upon which I should like some information. It is as to the amount of the responsibility which the federal government will assume in the matter of direct relief which is granted by the provinces and the municipalities to the individual. At the present time I believe that the federal government assumes one-third of the cost. I wonder if the minister could inform the house whether the government has undertaken to assume a larger share of the financial burden, thereby helping both the provinces and the municipalities.

Mr. GORDON:

The agreements have not been changed.

Mr. HEAPS:

Is it the intention of the government to assume only one-third of the cost of direct relief as they have 'been doing up to now?

Mr. GORDON:

Perhaps the hon. member has not noticed the memoranda drawn from the agreements already entered into, as set out in the report of the director of unemployment relief, in which is given the percentages of direct relief which the Dominion government has heretofore been bearing. I presume that the hon. member is particularly concerned with the province of Manitoba, in the unorganized parts of which the federal government has contributed fifty per cent; but no change has been made from the agreements as set out in the report of the director of unemployment relief. There has been no con-

Unemployment-Agreements with Provinces

elusion arrived at as between any province and the Dominion government with respect to any change in the proportion which the Dominion government will assume in the matter of direct relief.