Right Hon. R. B. BENNETT (Prime Minister) moved:

That on and after Monday the tenth instant and every day thereafter, government orders shall have precedence over all business except questions by members and notices of motions for the production of papers.

Mr. J. S. WOODSWORTH (Winnipeg

North Centre): Mr. Speaker, I wish to say a few words before the motion now before us is passed. On Friday last the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) made no reference whatever to unemployment and the serious depression prevailing throughout Canada. I do not know

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whether or not it is ihis intention to deal with those matters at this session; he made no reference to them. I submit that unemployment is one of the most important matters with which the country is faced. Two years ago a special session of parliament was called to deal with this important problem, and today we have more unemployment than we had at that time. If there was need of a special session then there is much more need to-day.

Cities in the west are almost desperate, they have not been able to obtain any clear undertaking as to the manner in which the Dominion government will give relief during the coming year. As a result they are at their wit's end to know how to carry on financially. My own city of Winnipeg last year spent over 5900,000 of the city's own funds for relief. That must be multiplied by three if we are to have the amount necessary in the city of Winnipeg alone. Other western cities are in very much the same position. Provincial governments are not able to handle the situation; they do not know how to arrange matters for the coming year.

I should like to make special mention of the recent edict banning riding on freight trains by .people stranded in different localities. For a time the authorities permitted this practice; in their efforts to find work men were allowed to travel in this way. Then notice was issued that on a certain date this method of travel was to be stopped. The result was that some men tried to burry to their homes or elsewhere for the winter. Others stayed to carry on the work of the harvest which is not yet fully completed. Only yesterday I had a resolution sent me from my own party, the Independent Labour party of Winnipeg, urging that the government should grant free transportation of the unemployed to their own homes. That seems reasonable. For a time these men were allowed to travel on the freight trains. Whether or not the government connived at it, certainly a great many municipal authorities urged the unemployed out of town, practically forcing them to ride on the freight trains. A number of men have told me that the authorities issued instructions that the unemployed had to ride the freight trains and get out. I do not think this condition ought to go on for many weeks. The freeze-up is coming, and these men ought to toe suitably provided for. It seems to me that the provinces have a right to know what the government is going to do in the matter.

Then there is the larger question of the general depression, of which unemployment is only one phase. I believe the depression is

as great to-day in western Canada as it was two years ago, and almost as great as it was one year ago. True, we have had a fairly good crop in certain sections, but that crop is not bringing sufficient returns to pay for the cost of putting it in and taking it off. The result is that the money going to the farmers is mortgaged. It seems to me that without going into this matter at further length the Prime Minister ought to assure us that there will be no adjournment of this session until these matters are fully discussed, and until he has stated very definitely what he will do with regard to the whole situation. In the judgment of a great many of us the legislation implementing the agreements arrived at by the Imperial economic conference is not as important as the immediate relief of our own people. It is quite possible that the government may take advantage of its large majority to force an adjournment at the conclusion of that business, so that we would have no opportunity of discussing matters vital to the interests of the ordinary citizen. I ask the Prime Minister to give this house an assurance that before we adjourn we may have the fullest information w'ith regard to the attitude of the government concerning these matters that affect the welfare of the people of Canada.

Mr. ROBERT GARDINER (Acadia):

Mr. Speaker, if passed, the motion now before the house would give government business precedence. Because of the agreements at the Imperial Economic conference I presume such procedure is necessary, and in so far as I personally am concerned I have no objection to giving preference to the agreements for a time. We will not know of what they consist until Wednesday next when the Prime Minister, as he stated a few days ago will give information to the house. However, while those agreements may be of importance my judgment is that they will but touch the fringe of the economic difficulties with which we in Canada are faced. While we are quite willing to expedite the passing of these agreements, if they disclose nothing of a- controversial nature, at the same time I should like to impress upon the Prime Minister and his colleagues that the real problems with which we in this parliament should deal are inside Canada, and not outside of it.

During the last election campaign the Prime Minister in discussing problems before Canada took exception to the then Prime Minister depending upon conferences to meet the economic problems of the day. On many occasions statements made by the Prime Min-

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ister during that campaign have been placed on Hansard. I remind him of only one:

Mr. King promises you conferences; I promise you action' He promises consideration of the problem of unemployment; I promise to end unemployment. Which plan do you like best?

There is mention in the speech from the throne of the possibility of a world economic and financial conference. I wish to protest emphatically against dealing with outside problems until we have dealt with those confined to Canada. To-day, in Canada, with the exception of a few important commodities, we have natural resources and machinery of production sufficient to satisfy the consumption of our people. Yet there are people in Canada on the verge of starvation. I submit the present is not the proper time to put off consideration of these economic problems. Winter is before us, and I trust that before very long the government will give to this house some intimation as to its policy concerning the economic problems within Canada.

Right Hon. W. L. MACKENZIE KING (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to repeat what I said on Friday concerning the desirability of concluding the debate on the address before other matters are considered, and certainly before this parliament adjourns. I join whole-heartedly with the hon. members who have just spoken concerning the importance of the domestic problems of Canada. I agree that they are of greater magnitude than those with which the country has been faced at any previous time. The Imperial economic conference should not be made a cover or a shield to conceal the government's inability to deal with the larger immediate domestic problems. We have a right to ask that before Imperial economic conference matters are discussed the Prime Minister should give this house a definite undertaking that before the adjournment at the end of the preliminary session there will be ample opportunity to discuss not only problems of unemployment but questions concerning banking, credit and currency as well.

Hon. ERNEST LAPOINTE (Quebec East):

Mr. Speaker, I join with those who have spoken in asking the government to give the house an assurance that the problems confronting us may be discussed before any adjournment for an international economic conference. May I say that I do not like the new practice of not going on with the discussion on the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I have just looked at the order paper for the day and I find that consideration of the speech of His Excellency is placed there under the title of _ government

orders. That is a new practice, or I am considerably mistaken. It has always been placed on the order paper as a special order. This is an order which is directed to be placed there by a vote of the house, after Your Honour has informed the house that His Excellency has kindly read his speech at the opening of parliament. It is not a government order; the speech ef His Excellency is not directed to the government, it is directed to you and to the members of the house. My right hon. friend the Prime Minister is attending there as is everyone else,-perhaps he is better looking than the others on account of his official uniform-but the speech is delivered to the members of the house. It is parliament, all the members of the house, who move an address in reply to the speech from the throne; not the government, not the Prime Minister. I think it is certainly desirable that the members of the house should have the opportunity of discussing all the problems of the country in the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne. I understand that there are special circumstances this year that might make it desirable that we should proceed with consideration of the agreements which were reached at the last Imperial economic conference, but to adopt this as a practice I think is wrong.

I also submit that wre should have an assurance that the .majority of this house will not force an adjournment after the debates are concluded on the agreements reached at the conference, and thus deprive hon. members of the opportunity of discussing the problems of the country in the debate on the address.

Mr. SPEAKER:

For the information of the hon. member for Quebec East (Mr. Lapointe) and the house generally I wish to say that the words "government order" on the order paper were a clerical error. The consideration of the speech of His Excellency the Governor General at the opening of the session should have been placed under the heading "special orders." It was printed as it is, as I say, by a clerical mistake and not at the instance of the government or anjmne on behalf of the government.

Mr. LAPOINTE:

So much the better.

Mr. ANGUS MacINNiIS (Vancouver South): I think the point raised by the member for Acadia (Mr. Gardiner) and the member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Woodsworth) is very well taken. During the opening ceremonies of parliament a few days ago my mind kept reverting back to a somewhat similar situation some two years ago. I can well remember with what assur-

Business of the House

ance the Prime Minister brought forth his program that year of appropriations for public works, and his amendments to the customs tariff, that were going to bring us out of the depression and into the bright sunlight of prosperity. I am quite positive that whatever the benefit of the agreements come to at the Imperial economic conference may be, they will be just as futile in meeting the present economic situation of Canada as was the legislation of 1930. It is therefore very necessary that we should have assurance that we shall have more than an academic discussion of unemployment and, the other pressing questions that are facing the country at the moment.

The people of the province of British Columbia, and particularly the citizens of Vancouver, are beginning to feel that they are at their wit's end, that there is nothing further that they can do. Yet we have nothing concrete from the government as to what is going to be done in regard to unemployment. There is a phase of the unemployment situation that is only now beginning to be seriously felt. Up to the present time a great many people have been able to pay their rent, or if they were not, their landlords were able to keep them on, but now they have reached the limit of their resources; not only those who are unemployed, but many who are employed, on the wages they are receiving to-day, cannot afford to feed a family and pay rent as well, and the landlords cannot afford to wait any longer. Therefore it is very essential that we should have some assurance that we shall have ample discussion, not merely an academic discussion, of a program that will deal with the situation now facing the country.

Mr. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I have no

right to make any further observations, as I have no right to reply. But I would ask this chamber to remember that this session ordinarily would not meet until March, 1933. It is meeting now solely because of undertakings given at the Imperial economic conference, and the action taken by the government of Canada is the same action that is being taken by the governments of other parts of the empire. In England they called their session earlier, although it was very inconvenient to do so, and not as early as perhaps they would like to have done. And similar arrangements are being made in other parts of the empire. So that we are proceeding with the business for which this session was called at this time rather than next spring. And we will proceed on that assumption.

I have not heard of any effort being made to lessen or limit the volubility of hon. members with respect to the speech from the throne. I have only this to say to the former Minister of Justice (Mr. Lapointe) that, in connection with the speech from the throne we are pursuing the course that has been pursued in England, because long ago the waste of time involved in adjourning from Thursday until Monday to begin the debate on the address was realized. That is something that had to be overcome. Then when the discussion did take place it was not to interfere with government business. No precedence is given the debate for that reason; it becomes a special order when this house passes a resolution that the debate is to have precedence over other discussion. We have not asked for a special order, in the sense in which I am using it, not in the sense the hon. gentleman did; this house has not passed any such motion, it has not been invited to do so, and it will not be invited to do so as far as this government is concerned at this time. The matter will proceed, and as to its being put down upon the order paper as a government order, as His Honour has explained, the government, in that respect, is in no sense responsible. It is a special order as the term is used in the rules of the house; it is not special in that any order giving it precedence has been passed. I know of no reason why hon. gentlemen cannot avail themselves of the fullest opportunity for discussion in the debate on the address in reply to the speech from the throne. But most parliaments have learned that those discussions are not very useful, however ornamental they may be, as they will subsequently be renewed with respect to concrete matters of legislation.

Hon. E. N. RHODES (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, I desire to present

the public accounts for the year ending March 31, 1932. It will be recalled that in the speech from the throne it was anticipated that these would not be ready until parliament had reassembled next year. While the Auditor General's report is not ready, the public accounts have been completed by the printers and I therefore table them.

Hon. W. A. GORDON (Minister of Labour):

I desire to lay on the table orders

in council Nos. 2209, 2210, 2211, 2212 and 2213, passed pursuant to the Relief Act, 1932, and all relating to the expenditure of money.

Soldier Settlement

Hon. PETER HEENAN (Kenora-Rainy River):

I should like to direct the attention

of the government to a question which I believe to be of extreme importance. This morning I received a telegram from the mayor of Sioux Lookout, in which he states that the gaol is full of transient unemployed persons taken off the trains by the mounted police, under orders from this government. They want to know what to do with these people, and what measures the government has in view to deal with the situation.

Hon. W. A. GORDON (Minister of Labour):

I presume that following the publication of the notice that riding on trains must be stopped, there are many municipalities in Canada in which a number of these unemployed have been gathered together, and they will have to be cared for. In the locality referred to by the hon. member this situation arose previously, and when application was made to the provincial government steps were taken adequately to provide for the maintenance of such transients. I have no doubt that if the mayor of Sioux Lookout will address his communication to the provincial government steps will be taken to meet the situation existing in that town.

Mr. M. N. CAMPBELL (Mackenzie):

I

desire to direct a question to the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. Ryckman). I have received a telegram from western Canada having reference to the imposition of an arbitrary valuation on barbed wire imported from Holland. The telegram directs attention to the fact that this commodity is a prime agricultural necessity, and that such an arbitrary valuation will impose a considerable hardship on the farmers of the west. I do not expect the minister to give a definite answer at the moment, but I would greatly appreciate it if he would look into this matter and later on give the house what specific information he may have with regard to the need for and the nature of this arbitrary valuation.

Hon. E. B. RYCKMAN (Minister of National Revenue):

I can tell the hon. member now that there is nothing at present before the department or the government having to do with the fixing of any arbitrary value on barbed wire.

Hon. W. A. GORDON (Minister of Labour):

I think the policy of the government with respect to soldier settlers, as well as other settlers who have received government help, has been made very clear since I had anything to do with the administration of that department. Our policy is to take such a course as will not embarrass any settler who is honestly endeavouring to farm his land and meet his obligations, even though he cannot meet in full those obligations he may have to the crown. With respect to fire insurance losses, as each case comes into the department it is dealt with on its merits. I will be very glad to review all such cases as have been referred to by the hon. member and if it appears that anything in the nature of a hardship has been worked on any settler I can give the hon. member the assurance that the situation will be dealt with without delay, although I doubt very much if any such hardships have been caused.