Mr. MANION:

They are expert porters

but are not classified as such.

Mr. POULIOT:

I understand that they

are both porters and butlers at the same time.

Mr. MANION:

The porters on the cars,

so far as I know, are exactly the same men who have been on the cars for some years. I do not think there have been any changes. They are called porters and do that work and also what might be called butlering, if you will, and cooking.

Mr. POULIOT:

How many of them are

there?

Mr. MANION:

Two for each car.

Mr. POULIOT:

And how many cars?

Mr. MANION:

Three.

Mr. POULIOT:

Including the governor

general's?

Mr. MANIO'N: No, that comes under a

separate item.

Mr. POULIOT:

I have no objection to

the governor general and the government having special cars, especially when there are only three. On the other hand, I have always spoken strongly in this house against private cars for the superintendents of the railway, but I do not know when I shall have another opportunity to speak on this question, so I wish to take advantage of this opportunity. I wish to thank the minister for his courtesy when I mentioned the matter to him. The questions I wished to ask unfortunately were disposed of by another member of the cabinet than the minister himself when they came 53719-228

up in the house. I want to protest as vigorously as I 'Can against all sorts of foolish expenditures that are being made by the superintendents of both railways. They should not be entitled to a private car. It is all right for the governor general and the Prime Minister and other members of the government to have a private oar when they go on a long trip. I am not narrowminded enough to criticize that and I never have, provided the expenses are reasonable. On the other hand, 1 think it is foolish to allow the superintendents to travel around in luxurious private cars, with butlers and expensive food and all the glory of the Queen of Sheba, and I think a stop should be put to it, especially when the common necessities of life like sugar are being heavily taxed. The Prime Minister says that we have lots of unavoidable expenditure in connection with the railways, but this is foolish expenditure, insane expenditure, which cannot possibly be justified, particularly when we see engineers of the railway going about from station to station on an ordinary handcar to make their inspections. The superintendents travel about in their special cars on important trips, presumably. They sit in their private car and say they are there to work, but if they want to work while on the train they can just as easily do it in a stateroom in a Pullman oar. Very often I have met ministers of the crown travelling around as ordinary mortals in Pullman ears, and they arrive at their destination just as safely a3 'the superintendents travelling around in their gorgeous private cars. We must come down to earth and realize that that land of foolish expenditure must be put a stop to right now. I am sure that the Minister of Railways is all right in this matter, and I do not put the blame on him at all, but rather on those who refuse to answer members of the House of Commons when they 'ask the government for legitimate information. I am here to look after the interests of the country as a whole, and I am prepared to do it, and I shall bring these facts before the house at every opportunity. At the present time when more than half the railway men of this country are out of work, we see a man in Quebec who is not qualified, who was recommended by Lord Shaughnessy, but who did not appoint him to the Canadian Pacific Railway, but recommended him to the Canadian National Railways, and he is now the fifth or seventh wheel of the coach. The only tiling he does is to look at himself in the looking glass. There are four special cars for the superintendents around Quebec and Levis, which is one more than there are for

Private Bills

all the members of the cabinet. I have nothing against these people personally, but we must be sensible in our expenditures and in tames like these when there is so much suffering we must take from those who have too much to help feed those who have not enough. That seems to me only common sense. I know that the minister understands me and I hope that he will tell the members of the cabinet who do not understand common sense that they must come back to it before they can be called supermen.

Mr. BRADETTE:

Has the minister the amount spent on surveys separate from investigations?

Mr. MANION:

I explained that to the committee when the hon. gentleman was out. There are two engineers, Mr. Lazier and Mr. Hand. Mr. Hand has been taken over from the Public Works department by the Department of Railways and Canals because it must be remembered that under the late government and under this government until recently the Beauharnois project was handled through the Public Works department, but a few months ago it was transferred to the Department of Railways and Canals. The duties of these two engineers are to see that the Beauharnois Power Company remain within their agreement with the government of Canada in the construction work. Their whole purpose in these surveys is to see that the company does not do anything contrary to its agreement.

Mr. GARDINER:

Why was the change made from the Department of Public Works to the Department of Railways and Canals?

Mr. MANION:

Offhand I could not say definitely except that canals are generally under the Department of Railways and Canals. I think that is the whole purpose in making the change. Probably it never should have been at first under the Department of Public Works, but it may have been put there for good reasons which I do not know about.

Mr. POULIOT:

May I ask if the government has reached a decision with regard to the St. Lawrence waterway and if the question will come before the house this session?

Mr. MANION:

The matter is still in the position in which it was when I answered a similar question some time ago. In all probafMr. Pouliot.]

bility the matter will not come up this session unless the treaty is ratified by the United States congress.

Mr. POULIOT:

May I ask what estimates will be taken up this evening?

Mr. MANION:

It is private bills for the first hour, and the estimates of the Department of Agriculture.

Mr. POULIOT:

Any other departments?

Mr. MANION:

I think not. Agriculture will probably take the whole two hours.

At six o'clock the Speaker resumed the chair and the house took recess.

After Recess

The house resumed at eight o'clock.