April 10, 1933

CON

Joseph Arthur Barrette

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. BARRETTE (Berthier-Maskin-onge) (Translation):

Mr. Speaker, the courage displayed by the hon. Minister of Finance (Mr. Rhodes), in bringing down a budget so burdened with taxation, is certainly worthy of praise. 1 especially wish to draw the attention of the house to the well established fact that alone the economic depression of which Canada, as well as the rest of the world, Buffers, has forced the government to resort to such a budget.

All members of this house realize, better than I can express it, the moral courage displayed by a government, when it risks its popularity by increasing the taxes which burden a nation. It is the outward and fearless expression of a government conscious of its duty. It is the accomplishment of this disagreeable duty which all statesmen have to face when the nation's credit, upon which the prosperity of the people depends, demands it.

Above all, the duty of our governments is to safeguard the nation's economic system, so rudely shaken by a world-wide depression and which the hon. member for Winnipeg North 'Centre (Mr. Woodsworth) would completely cast aside because as he states " the present economic system is responsible for the fact that a large number of people are out of work, and that both our natural resources and the social organization in this country serve the interests of a few and not those of the people, as a whole."

These two statements are baseless and the hon. member carefully avoided substantiating them. In what way is our present economic system responsible for the unemployment of so large a number of people? The hon. member does not state. This economic depression is world-wide, as the hon. member pointed out. Almost all countries differ in their economic systems and even Russia's economic regime was powerless against this depression. Ever since the world was created, at various periods, there have been economic crises in all countries and under all economic regimes. All forms of government were tried and none of them were able to stem the rising tide of economic crises.

This economic depression has been attributed to a thousand causes, however, there are plausible reasons to believe that the main cause is the lack of trust among nations as well as among individuals. It belongs to a moral order rather than to a material one. The world's wealth lias remained intact but badly distributed, and a large portion of it has remained unproductive owing to this lack of trust. It is clearly a trial sent by Heaven. The world was likewise upset when the erection of the tower of Babel was undertaken.

The entire population of the world worked on the construction of this tower. It was the golden period of those past ages. All had work and cherished great hopes in the achievement of this gigantic tower which eventually would reach Heaven. Suddenly, God's hand smites the world. The workmen can no more understand one another as God has given them different languages. No more cooperation can exist. All their hopes have vanished. The tower remains unfinished, the people are left without work and they are forced to rest. That was, perhaps, the first world-wide economic depression. It must have been terrible since history has recorded the fact. It was certainly not the economic system of that period which was responsible for that crisis. It was a punishment inflicted upon human pride. Why not attribute the present crisis to the same cause?

Then, why assert that our natural resources and the social organization of the country's production are diverted to benefit a few? It is certainly an unfair statement. The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Woodsworth) is fully aware that, if the working classes have no wrork, it is because those who had wealth have lost it and cannot carry on their industries. It is true that there are a few capitalists left and it is fortunate for us, and our few industries which remain. As long as there is a scarcity of wealthy people, we shall be deprived of industries and our people will be unemployed. Captains of industries are needed so that the people's savings may 'be invested and bear fruit. That is the work of financiers. The profits they make are infinitely small compared to the benefit the nation derives. During the periods of prosperity our working classes earned wages varying between $4 and $10 per day. Do you not think, sir, that our workmen would not gladly seethe fortunes lost by our financiers returned to them, so that they might again receive the wages they once earned and enjoy the prosperous days of the past.

Among all these wealthy men, there were certainly robbers and profiteers, but, even while robbing they contributed to the happiness of the people.

That the state should better control industrial trusts, I agree; but I do think it absurd to suppress them. The economic conquest is carried out just like a war is waged: with soldiers and generals. The soldiers are the workmen and the capitalists are the generals. The worker is therefore interested that his employer should make sufficient profits which will allow him to continue his operations, and, in fact, a good worker, is always glad to see his employer acquire wealth 'because he is

The Budget-Mr. Barrette

bound sooner or later to derive some benefit from it. Self-interest is one of the most potent incentives of life, it compels man to work and leads to achievement. It is the prime mover of human effort; it is the main incentive of production, trade, researches, discoveries, inventions and all human activities. All social organizations must tend to foster private initiative for the greatest welfare of the community and all political reforms tending to curtail the freedom of private individuals are directly opposed to human nature, destined to failure and lead to disorder. Human activities small and great, must be the result of private initiative to be beneficial.

If the lot of our people is to be improved, there is but one thing to do: preach by

example and word the social and religious truths which alone can assure the progress and happiness of humanity. Preachers of religion should avoid persecuting, under the pretence of religion, their fellow-citizens; similarly those who are intent on reforming morals or society should avoid upsetting social institutions under pretence of social welfare and putting everything to the sword and fire. Let us point out to the people not only their rights but also their duties. Let us seek the means of being useful to others while serving our own interests. Let us seek the real aim of life. Let us remember that freedom is indispensable to attain moral progress, which, to be efficacious, must not be interfered with.

Mr. IRV'IXE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I would draw your attention to the fact that there is not a quorum in the house.

The Clerk having counted the members:

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Onésime Gagnon

Conservative (1867-1942)

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr. Gagnon):

I am informed that there is a quorum.

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Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Joseph Arthur Barrette

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BARRETTE (Translation):

The Budget-Mr. Barrette

have but two. Since 1927, the Auditor General's report shows that we have received $17,000,000 less for public works than to what we are entitled.

More than $4,000,000,000 have been expended on railways while our share has been only $489,000,000, that is $600,000,000 less than our quota. All our ports are neglected. The Montreal harbour owes its development to its citizens. We are entitled to double the number of grain elevators and many more wharves. And to mention more recent events, how can one justify the discontinuance of a certain undertaking in connection with the Canadian National Railways, at Montreal, which has left an open and large excavation in the centre of the metropolis, thus depriving the Canadian National Railways of an economic terminus, when millions of dollars are expended to complete the doubtful enterprise at Fort Churchill. The St. Lawrence channel should have been dredged to a depth of 35 feet, on a width of 600 feet, at least 10 years ago.

I never neglect an opportunity of reminding the Prime Minister and his colleagues of these grievances. That is the only source of our quarrels. However, I note that the Prime Minister greatly sympathizes with me and I still have hope of convincing him to take this question of French Canada out of Canadian politics by granting us the fair quota to which we are entitled in the administration of this country, especially, as I expect that the next house will be composed of 60 French Canadian members from Quebec, elected to uphold the principles and ideas advocated by the Conservative party, which are the best and wisest for the government of our country, but, especially, in order to insist that our rights be entirely recognized. The new imposts may not be popular; the hon. members of the opposition may be piously listened to by the people in distress; the gloomy description of our situation may still further dishearten our citizens; utterances like those of the hon. member for Quebec East (Mr. Lapointe) may rouse the passions of the people; however, all these appeals to prejudice and human selfishness can in no way belittle the deep gratitude which our people feel toward the right hon. Prime Minister and his colleagues. A moral force emanates from their courageous attitude in facing the problems which rise daily and which they are busy in solving for the greatest welfare of our people.

Thus, further revenue had to be raised to consolidate our credit, assist those in want

and help our people through this crisis; therefore, the government levies an impost on sugar, increases the income tax and taxes other articles.

With their good common sense the people fully understand that the moment taxes are levied, the rate payer's must be assessed. Bear in mind that the working or farming class does not form a caste apart and that it is as disagreeable to them to note that the village employer, merchant or banker is taxed; in either case, the workman or farmer knows that he will equally share in the distress or prosperity of his fellow citizens, whatever high position they may occupy. The people are fully aware that the present distress started higher up, by 'the financial losses made by the upper classes. The prosperity of a nation is closely linked to eveiy form of taxation, no matter how unequally distributed it may seem at first, it ends by reaching directly or indirectly all individuals.

All the government must decide is the amount necessary to administer the country's affairs. Should $300,000,000 be required, there will necessarily be $300,000,000 levied in taxes. If the government were in 'a position to know exactly .the salary or income of each individual, the problem of taxation would soon be solved, as all would be assessed in proportion to his resources. But, unfortunately, it is practically impossible to arrive at exact figures concerning the income of each individual. The government is therefore forced to resort to taxes easily collected which will bring in the revenue foreseen. The sugar tax will thus enrich the treasury by $20,000000. This anticipated amount is not gainsaid. We could analyse all taxes and always arrive at the same conclusion. We should avoid levying them, but, unfortunately, they are necessary. All we can request from the government is that it should only levy the taxes which really benefit the treasury.

I trust the hon. Minister of Finance will permit me to make a suggestion. Why not confine ourselves to customs duties and excise taxes, reducing the latter by 50 per cent, so as to foster domestic trade, and why not abolish all other imposts, such as taxes on corporations, sugar and sales tax, briefly, all existing taxes, and replace them by a 1 per cent tax on all bank transactions? The latter amounted to the enormous sum of $31,000,000,000 in 1931, and would have brought a revenue of $315,000,000 to the state. The collection of such a tax would not cost a cent to the government.

The Budget-Mr. Barrette

All banks would retain on. cheques presented at the teller's wicket, 1 per cent of the cheque amount, as a government tax. The majority of cheques are generally drawn to pay bills or debts, and the tax would fall on the payee, which after all would only amount to 1 per cent deducted on his bill. Thus, the poor man who has no banking account would be exempt from taxation, while those who have large banking accounts would be taxed according to their standing in the financial world. It would be a far more equitable tax than the income tax, because nobody could escape it. A 1 per cent surtax could be demanded for each endorser, other than the beneficiary, so as to avoid that the same cheque be used by various holders, thus avoiding the tax.

Note that with this proposed system, the 1 per cent tax is levied on the payee and not on the person who issues the cheque; there would be no inducement to pay with cash; and t'he banks, thereby, would have no fear of receiving less deposits.

Another advantage attached to this form of taxation would be that large companies as well as prominent financiers would be obliged to practically pay their taxes daily, thus their financial affairs would be better balanced than with the present system, which consists in paying at the end of the fiscal year an income tax, when, in the ordinary course of business, they have already invested their money in various enterprises and find it most difficult to raise the necessary cash to pay the enormous tax which the state collects each year, at a fixed period. And it is the moire burdensome because no person can figure out the amount he must pay before first making a complete survey of bis affairs; it is then too late to think of suppressing other expenses or industrial investments to meet this tax.

The uncertainty as to what the income tax will amount, necessarily makes capitalists very cautious and forces them to set aside, each year, much larger amounts than the tax calls for, because of the fear of making an error in their calculations; this actually deprives industry of a much larger amount than the tax collected.

The objections to the taxation which I suggest must necessarily be numerous, because all taxes meet with opposition. However, I wish to point out that this tax has a great redeeming quality; it will be economical and easy to collect. I believe that the cost of collecting the income tax and other excise 53719-246|

taxes, etc., amounts to more than $8,000,000 per year; while this 1 per cent impost would practically cost nothing to collect; because the channel through which the government gets its information already exists; the banks, at present, supply the government with monthly statements on cheques passing through their institutions. The government, therefore, has always this information on hand. The amount varies between $2,000,000,000 and $3,000,000,000 per month; thus banks when forwarding their monthly statements would simply have to inclose a cheque of 1 per cent on the amount mentioned in the statement. The government would, therefore, receive, monthly, a cheque varying between $20,000,000 and $30,000,000. I do not think that any doubt could foe cast on the honesty of our banking institutions as regards their statements; at all events, it would be an easy matter for a few government inspectors to check up the books of the various banks.

This tax is so simple in its practical application and so devoid of complication, compared to the existing tax system, that the government should have no hesitation in adopting it. What would be more simple than the collection of this tax; when a cheque is presented at the bank, the teller would only pay 90 per cent of the amount mentioned, and would debit the account of the client 100 per cent. At the end of each day, banks add the total amounts of cheques presented and debit their clients' accounts with said amounts. This operation would immediately indicate what amount is due to the government, namely 1 per cent of the total amount of the cheques. At the end of each month, banks would forward to the government a statement showing the total amount of the cheques debited to the accounts of their clients; this is actually in practice, it would therefore require no further outlay by the banks. In preparing their statement the banks would simply mention that they have deposited to the government's account 1 per cent of the total amount of cheques cashed. Is there any simpler system as regards tax collection? Compare this system with that of the present collection of the income tax, consider all the irregularities to which the latter system gives rise and the necessity the government is under of continuously checking up their employees and seeing that they carry out their duties, notwithstanding the always growing temptation of granting favours to their friends. There could be no possible favour granted to friends

3S94

The Budget-Mr. Barrette

with this 1 per cent tax, so that you suppress the factor of human weakness which should not be put to a test. All are aware of the corrupt practices of which the putting into force of the Volstead Act was the occasion in the United States; the Income Tax Act is similar to the Volstead Act and is destined sooner or later to corrupt officials and weaken the moral force of the whole administration. We should make a strong effort to abrogate all laws which are generally disregarded by the large majority of citizens. If by the [DOT]excessive severity of our laws, we tempt the great majority of our people to disregard them, we thereby tempt these same people to break other laws which are of a much higher moral order, the observance of which is absolutely necessary for the moral uplift of our people.

To foster agriculture I would suggest that the government erect cold storage plants, costing about $10,000 each in all farming counties. Farmers could then store their perishable products and banks could be authorized to loan to farmers 50 per cent of the par value of these products. In order to market these products abroad, I would suggest that the government promote a commercial organization of salesmen something similar to the organization existing in the past to induce immigrants to settle here. When we were endeavouring to increase the population of this country, we had immigration agents in all European centres liable to : send us immigrants. These agents were paid :a salary and a commission of so much per 'head. We thus succeeded in drawing thousands of immigrants to these shores, although such a policy cost us many millions of dollars.

I would suggest that the government appoint agents in all large European cities in a position to purchase our farm products. These agents would be supplied with a list of all our farm products in cold storage. In each respective country they could employ people who would visit the various retail stores offering for sale our farm products. Each day, orders thus obtained would be grouped to make up a complete cargo so that reasonable shipping rates could be had. In this way we would have abroad thousands of [DOT]clients, instead of being at the mercy of a few wholesale houses. It might be necessary to erect some cold storage plants in a few large European cities so as to always have on hand a surplus of our products for quick sales. The government could be reimbursed for this outlay by adding a small storage charge on the sale of these products.

JMr. Barrette.]

Is it not time, in order to further assist the Canadian farmer, that we should, as a measure of expediency, settle what is to be the minimum prices on farm products? For instance, why not decree that. the minimum price of butter should be 25 cents per pound and that of cheese 10 cents a pound. Such measures would tend to encourage the Canadian farmer to raise his spirit depressed by this crisis which has already lasted too long.

Other means of indirectly assisting the farming class and stemming unemployment would be to allow Canadian distillers to export alcohol, which would result in reopening again the doors of distilleries. WTe must bear in mind that a distillery of Melchers Gin standard, operated within the limits of my constituency, uses millions of bushels of Canadian grain, without mentioning the hand labour and by-products of these manufactures utilized by the farming class. Moreover, when the debate on the Robinson bill took place, it was proved, without a doubt, that alcohol exports brought into the treasury an amount varying between $15,000,000 and $20,000,000. Would not this amount have been sufficient to permit our government to carry on without levying a 2-cent tax on sugar? Such a measure would be well received by the people, because those who are making millions of dollars, to the detriment of our industries, have a questionable reputation, and to-day the United States doors are wide open to clandestine trade.

Other means of checking unemployment would be to further develop the Beauharnois power and St. Lawrence waterways. These two undertakings would give work to about forty or fifty thousand men and would completely relieve unemployment in this country. No doubt, sir, you are aware that between 1872 and 1878 there was a similar crisis in this country and that the construction of the Lachine canal contributed in a large measure to end that crisis.

Recently I received a letter from a Montreal friend who pointed out the necessity of curbing the electricity trust in Canada. The letter is as follows:

1280 Bernard Ave., Outremont,

March 28, 1933.

Mr. J. A. Barrette, M.P.,

Ottawa, Out.

Dear Sir,-

Pursuant to our conversation, I respectfully submit the following facts:

The Beauharnois Company such as organized, with its advantageous and permanent current contracts, provides for the payment of all interests on mortgages and bonds, and more-

The Budget-Mr. Picket

over raises the value of the common stock to many millions of dollars, why then should not the original bondholders receive for their investment 100 cents on the $1?

As it is believed in well informed quarters, if the Montreal Light, Heat and Power Company acquire the Beauharnois Company under the stipulations of reorganizing the company as stated, those who subscribed the original $30,000,000, will be deprived of $12,000,000. Should this scheme succeed, it will be a clever stock exchange transaction, without precedent, to cover the loss of $24,000,000 that the Montreal Light. Heat and Power Company sustained in their investments.

We feel confident that the leader of the government will not force the original bondholders to make such a gift to Mr. Holt and his silent associates, why not preferably make this gift to the people of Canada, if one absolutely wishes to be philanthropic.

With the slightest effort, the least gifted can calculate what the realizable profits the Beauharnois Company will make:

Contracts signed, 400,000 h.p. at

$15 $ 6,000,000

Contracts not yet signed, 100,000

h.p. at $15 1,500,000

Yearly operation outlay 1,000,000

Profits $ 6,500,000

The total cost of the undertaking wall reach $70,000,000; at 6 per cent the interest will amount to $4,200,000; after the interest on mortgages have been earned and paid, if the Montreal Light, Heat and Power became the owners, their yearly profits would amount to $2,300,000; this would increase the value of the common shares to $40,000,000. Now that all the risks entailed by the project are things of the past, a shameful proposal is suggested to those who risked their hard earned money under the pretence that alone the Montreal Light. Heat and Power Company is unable to finance the Beauharnois Company. Will a theft of $12,000,000 be permitted openly, notwithstanding the protest of intelligent people who know these facts?

It is a cunning scheme; they wish to acquire, by every possible means at their disposal, a sound and splendid enterprise to cover the poor investments made by Mr. Holt.

If the Beauharnois project passes into the hands of the ogre, it will no more be the imposing and gigantic undertaking which was the pride ol its promoters and of all the citizens of this province. It will become a simple subsidiary enterprise paying its tribute as regularly as the hum of its turbines.

We have faith, hov'ever, that our representatives in parliament will act promptly and energetically.

Believe me, Sir,

Yours sincerely,

(Sgd.) J. C. Cote.

At present in the United States, commissions are being appointed to inquire into the financial operations of the banker Pierpont J. Morgan. The Canadian people would very

much like to get to the bottom of the financial operations of Sir Herbert Holt; perhaps, they might find out how the people were exploited and robbed and whether it is possible to make these large financiers stump up what they have robbed from the public.

You are no doubt aware, sir, that the Quebec government has just enacted a measure permitting the exportation of electricity. Could not the Dominion government disallow such an act, so as to conserve all our electrical energy to develop our own industries? It behooves the Prime Minister, who has the exceptional advantage of being supported by a large and united majority, who repose in him their trust, beside having a great admiration for his achievements, it behooves,

I state, the Prime Minister to oppose such a measure. Will he follow the example of Mussolini, Hitler and Roosevelt who took advantage of their prestige to introduce in their respective countries new principles of government, setting aside class prejudices, financial influences and red tape procedure, which are inherent to all governments, in order to give their respective countries an administration rendered necessary by the present crisis, and which seems destined to solve, happily, their national problems.

I trust that the right hon. Prime Minister will openly prove, without constraint, his reputation of statesman and leader of men, for the greatest welfare of Canada.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. F. H. PICKEL (Brome-Missisquoi):

Mr. Speaker, 1 wish first of all to supplement a few words that I said in March with respect to the committee on agriculture. I have a resolution on the order paper calling for the division of the agriculture committee into two sections, an agricultural section and a wheat section, but I wfeh to state now that the western members on that committee are helping us in every possible way. They are doing everything in their power to help us in our investigation of the milk situation, in which they seem quite interested. I do not now request that the agriculture committee be divided, and I have much pleasure in withdrawing that resolution.

The western farmer has been interested in dairying for the past year or two simply because wheat has been so low in price, and if this depression starts the western farmer into the right channel and he will only go in more for mixed farming than he does at present, it will not have been wholly in vain. There is a great potential market in the east for the western farmer. Undoubtedly the farmers in the west could supply Canada with butter. We understand they would have

The Budget-Mr. Pickel

difficulty if they entered into the manufacture of cheese, as milk is bulky and collection would ibe difficult. Ontario, Quebec and the maritimes should in my opinion devote all their energies to cheese making. Although at the present time butter is selling at better prices than cheese, comparatively, the fact is 'that the year round there is more money in the manufacture of cheese than in the manufacture of butter. Eastern farmers should be instructed and intelligently directed to devote their efforts to cheese making. On the English markets -our 'cheese is supreme, and brings a higher price than cheese from any other part of 'the world. On the other hand our butter, as a general rule, grades lower than butters from other countries. After making that statement in the month of March of this year I received a protest from the Provision Trades Association of Montreal, in which they sent statistics showing that Canadian butter graded higher than any other butter on the English market. I have taken great pains to ascertain the facts with regard to the marketing of butter, and I find that the best grades of Australian, New Zealand and Danish butter supersedes those of Canada, and that our butter is classed higher than 'that from 'the Soviet and Poland. These are the facts, and I amend my former statement accordingly.

After I made my speech in March on agricultural conditions a practical joker from Winnipeg sent me a postcard containing a massage which I Should like to place on Hansard:

Dear Rip Yan Winkle:

Wake up; did you ever visit a farm out west? Please be advised that all the eastern prizes for butter are always won by western fanners, and we can all milk cows-and how?

I had no intention of intimating that the west could not make butter. I believe that they are capable of making butter as good as and probably better than we make. However that is not the point in question. Further, I received a letter from a gentleman in Edmonton, one or two paragraphs of which I should like to place on Hansard:

In the northern portion of this province, of which Edmonton is the centre, we have not had a crop failure in the last twenty years, in fact nine out of ten years we have had real good crops. In the ten years from 1922 to 1932 we really had only two years of depressed prices. In other words we had eight years in succession from 1922 to 1930 with good crops and good prices. I will venture to say there is not one out of ten farmers here who set aside any surplus or reserve during these eight years to take care of a lean year. The surplus, generally

speaking, was spent in trips to the south. They have few, if any, cows and hogs to look after during the winter and the ones that have these few, the hired man or neighbour looks after them. The horses are usually cut loose around the straw piles to be taken up in March or April by the farmer, when he returns from the south.

Then he goes on to give a history of the western farmer:

You may think you have a lot to put up with having to listen to a few western M.P. farmers in the House of Commons. We have this to listen to every day in the year from our local U.F.A. members. Our farmers here, bad they behaved themselves, would be in a much better position than the farmers in Ontario and Quebec. The farmer here, or his father, got a good 160 acres of land at a cost of $10-homestead fees, and one of the first things he thinks of, on receiving his title, is how much he can borrow on it.

I have very little more to add with regard to the western farmer except that he has made millions where we have made only thousands. Many farmers out in the west make more in one year than the eastern farmer makes in a lifetime.

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Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

How many?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

The hon. member for

Southeast Grey (Miss Macphail) made the statement I had suggested that all the western farmers should go into mixed farming. I made no such statement, but suggested merely that those western farmers who could go into mixed farming should do so. It would be not only in their own interests but in those of the whole country.

For many years the Canadian farmers have been sadly neglected. The only real help that has been given to the mixed farmer has been since 1930, when the government gave the fruit farmers and market gardeners some seasonal protection. The people affected have certainly derived great advantage from the help given, and I hope and trust that in its wisdom the government may see fit to extend those seasonal helps. Ever since Mr. Joseph Chamberlain made his memorable speech in Glasgow in 1903 I have been favourably impressed with his views. On that occasion he advocated preferential trade within the empire; to-day we have it. Ever since 1896 every government in this country has striven to attain that end. But they were all unsuccessful until the right hon. the Prime Minister (Mr. Bennett) went over to the old country and in a businesslike way, laid his cards on the table, and a preferential tariff within the empire was the result. I contend

The Budget-Mr. Picket

that the right hon. gentleman is entitled to be and should be acclaimed the Right Hon. Sir Richard Bedford Bennett, the saviour not only of Canada, but also of the British empire.

I think he has done more for the empire than any other statesman that ever lived.

I am glad that the hon. member for Sherbrooke (Mr. Howard) has just come into the chamber. One of his chief occupations since I have been in this house, as also of the hon. member for St. Johns-Iberville (Mr. Rheaume), has been to compare prices in Canada with prices in the United States-butter so much in Canada, so much in the United States; eggs so much in Canada, so much in the United States. But this session, Mr. Speaker, we have not heard anything about that. Why? We are getting 28 cents a pound for butter in Canada, and in the United States it is 18 cents.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. HOWARD:

Who is getting 28 cents in Canada ?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

To-day for the first time since 1914 every farm product in Canada is selling at higher prices than anywhere else in the world.

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Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

How about wheat?

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Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

Don't worry about wheat. Canadian wheat is bound to come back; we raise the best wheat in the world.

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Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

It has not come yet.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
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CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

It is bound to regain its level. It is low at present, and we are sorry for it, but it is a world wide condition and I do not know what you can do to help it.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Edward James Young

Liberal

Mr. YOUNG:

What about the tariff?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

The hon. member for Sherbrooke and the hon. member for St. Johns-Iberville stand up in this house with voices full of tears and eyes as dry as dust, and with a pious and fervent 'hope in their hearts that things would get worse to serve their political ends. Remember, Mr. Speaker, they are both distributors. They are not working for the farmers; there is politics underlying it.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. HOWARD:

You ought to be fair at least. How do you make me a distributor?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

We have not heard any comparison of prices this session. If to-day we were on a butter export basis, instead of getting 28 cents a pound we would be getting 11J cents.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Paul Mercier

Liberal

Mr. MERCIER (St. Henri):

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. I do not think any

hon. member can discuss in this house, even on the budget, a matter which is sub judice before a committee of the house.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Onésime Gagnon

Conservative (1867-1942)

The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr. Gagnon):

I regret to say that the point raised by the hon. member is not well taken.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
CON

Follin Horace Pickel

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PICKEL:

If we were to-day on an export basis, instead of getting 28 cents we would be getting 114 cents. For that reason I advocate the making of just sufficient butter in Canada to supply our market, production intelligently controlled to make just about what we require. The minute we begin to export we take the export price. It would be much better for us, rather than run any risk of having butter to export, to have to import a little.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Albert Frederick Totzke

Liberal

Mr. TOTZKE:

Who is going to direct the production?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   CONTINUATION OF DEBATE ON THE ANNUAL FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

April 10, 1933