Mr. RYCKMAN:
No, not when their
currency is at a premium.
Mr. YOUNG:
Then will the minister explain this. I have here an appraiser's note for a small collection on an electric lamp. The appraised value-not the invoice value- is SI.90; United States exchange 26 cents; advance for duty, 72 cents, making a total value for duty of 82.88. How is that value for duty arrived at?
Mr. RYCKMAN:
That has nothing to do with the section under consideration.
Mr. YOUNG:
I think it has quite a bit to do with it. I will ask this question, then. If an American exporter is sending goods into Canada, with the Canadian dollar quoted at 88 cents American funds, and he offers to take the Canadian dollar at par, -what action will the officers take?
Mr. RYCKMAN:
I do not know either that that question relates to this section. We require the United States money to be converted into Canadian value.
Mr. YOUNG:
Will the minister say he will or will not impose a dumping duty equal to the difference in the currency?
Mr. RYCKMAN:
It depends upon the manner in which payment is made. It must be the fair market value in the country from which the goods are imported and must have relation to our own currency, and if an American exporter takes Canadian money when the United States money is at a premium we charge the duty in that case.
Mr. YOUNG:
Then the minister is charging the currency dumping duty against the United States as wtell ias against other countries whose currency is at a premium. I can recall a report that appeared in the newspapers some time ago of a speech of the Prime Minister in which he seemed to resent the fact that Americans did not give us 100 cents for the dollar. But if the American did offer full value the Minister of National Revenue would not let him do it.
Mr. BENNETT:
No, no.
Mr. YOUNG:
He said so.
Mr. RYCKMAN:
We insist on the fair market value for duty purposes. If someone tries to charge less we step in in the interests of the business of the country and insist upon a fair market value, and the transaction is carried out on that footing.
Mr. YOUNG:
It amounts to this. You simply say to the American, "You must not
give Canada one hundred cents for her dollar." Let us see what the section says in line 30:
... in all cases of sales or consignments of goods imported into Canada, where the importer owns, controls or is interested in the business of the exporter, or the exporter owns, controls or is interested in the business of the importer, or the importer and exporter operate under a controlling or holding company, notwithstanding the expressed terms of the sale or consignment, the transaction shall be regarded as a sale and the actual selling price to the purchaser in Canada shall be taken to be the value of the goods in the currency of the place or country of export converted into Canadian currency at the current rate of exchange, or at the average current rate from time to time fixed by order of the governor in council, and shall be regarded as less than the fair market value . . .
Leaving out the second clause we find this. If a certain relationship exists between an importer in Canada and an exporter in Britain, then the goods shall be regarded as being sold at less than fair market value and the dumping duty shall apply. Is that what the minister intends to say?
Mr. RYCKMAN:
I intended to say what
the hon. member has read.
Mr. YOUNG:
The minister intends to
say this, that if a partnership or relationship of principal and agent exists between an exporter in England and an importer in Canada, then the goods shall be regarded as being dumped and as being sold at less than fair market value. Is that what the minister intended?
Mr. RYCKMAN:
Yes, with this addedif the price is the value for special duty, because some have been evading the special duty. How? By using in the transaction the value that has been fixed as the value of the pound for special duty, so that there is no special duty payable at all. In some cases they have been willing to pay the merchant in England a higher price than they needed to pay him, in order to evade paying the special duty in Canada. If I have an affiliated company in England and if I am prepared to pay at a higher rate than the currency exchange rate I am simply taking money out of one pocket and putting it into the other and not giving the government its fair share of duty.
Mr. YOUNG:
Where is that contained
in the bill? As I read it all that is necessary is that a certain relationship shall exist, that there be a partnership, and if they are partners, regardless of everything else, the dumping duty applies. That is the way I understand the bill.
Customs Tariff Amendment
Mr. RYCKMAN:
If the invoice shows
that it would be a case of dumping if they were not partners.
Mr. YOUNG:
Where is that in the bill?
Mr. RYCKMAN:
The hon. member read
it; I do not wish to read it over again.
Mr. YOUNG:
I cannot find it. I do not know who drafted the section, but here are 466 words all in one sentence, and for the life of me I cannot find the subject or the predicate of it. I do not know who drew it up.