May 18, 1933

CON
CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

It is in order for the hon. member to speak on the matter.

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CON

Samuel Gobeil

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOBEIL:

I was in any case going to rise on a question of privilege. I am going to speak on a question of privilege and at the same time answer the hon. member. Will that be in order? I must say first that the last part of my remarks in Hansard accusing this man of being "not only a dirty individual, but a dirty, crooked liar," is not exactly what I said. What I did say and what I have since corrected in Hansard is "a dirty public liar." *

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh.

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CON

Samuel Gobeil

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOBEIL:

I quite agree that if I had said "a dirty, crooked liar," his degree of crookedness might have been debatable, but I said "a dirty public liar." On the question of privilege, in view of an article that appeared yesterday signed by Mr. Emile Benoist, which, in my opinion and I am sure in the opinion of the house, is very injurious to myself and also absolutely false, may I be permitted to give a little more detail in regard to what I said the day before yesterday? On that occasion I complained of the title of the article and also of the article as a whole . which I said was a tissue of lies. What the corespondent of Le Devoir said was that as a rural member I was insisting that more seats should be given to the island of Montreal. The intention of the writer is quite obvious. Knowing that I represented a rural riding, his intention was obviously to give my constituents and, indeed, all the rural citizens

Privilege-Mr. Chewier-Mr. Gobeil

of Quebec the impression that I, as a rural member, had insisted that more seats be given to the island of Montreal, to the detriment of the rural parts of my province.

In this article of yesterday, Mr. Benoist makes the accusation that I have spoken to that effect and almost suggests that I should prove that that was not what I said.

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LIB
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Sit down.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order! The hon. member for Temiscouata (Mr. Pouliot) is rising to a point of order. I will hear him.

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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

No hon. member can discuss or complain of an article in a newspaper unless he lays that newspaper on the table of the house. That has not been done yet, and therefore, until it is done, the hon. member is not in order in speaking to his question of privilege.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member for

Temiscouata is premature in his objection.

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CON

Samuel Gobeil

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOBEIL:

The writer being present at that meeting of the redistribution committee knew perfectly well when he wrote the article that the proceedings of the committee were not taken down in writing.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

Would the hon. member

proceed to tell the house what he complains of in the article? There is no necessity for a long debate.

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CON

Samuel Gobeil

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOBEIL:

I complain first of the heading of the article which says that Mr. Gobeil as a rural member wants a larger number of urban seats, a statement which is amplified in the article. What I was going to say was that the writer knew when he wrote the article that the proceedings of that committee were not taken down in writing, and surely my word as a sworn member of that committee and as a sworn member of this house should be as good as that of the writer. I denied in this house the day before yesterday that what was said in that article was correct. I said that it was not only incorrect but altogether false. I will go further. I have taken the trouble to look at practically all of the newspapers that I could find in the reading room of this house-

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LIB

Joseph Philippe Baby Casgrain

Liberal

Mr. CASGRAIN:

I rise to a point of

order. A question of privilege has been raised by the senior member for Ottawa (Mr. Chevrier) regarding certain words that have been used. I submit that the hon. member

for Compton (Mr. Gobeil) is not in order in quoting another article which has no reference at all to the first one, or in making a speech on redistribution a subject which has been especially entrusted to a special committee of this house.

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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. POULIOT:

And the redistribution

bill itself is before the house.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

' The hon. member for Compton is dealing with the question of privilege raised by the senior member for Ottawa as well as with another matter at the same time in order to shorten the proceedings.

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CON

Samuel Gobeil

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOBEIL:

I was saying, Mr. Speaker,

that I had looked at practically all the Liberal papers published in the province of Quebec and also the Conservative papers that I could find in the reading room and not one of them has words such as are used by this writer, and of which I complain. What I said before the committee was that projects had been submitted conceding two more seats to the island of Montreal, three more seats and four more seats, and I said that Mr. Dorion and myself were quite agreeable to working on a plan that would give three more seats, and it was agreed upon.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

The hon. member for

Compton complains that he has been misrepresented as to his actions before a certain committee of this house. He has made his complaint.

In regard to the question raised by the senior member for Ottawa, the precedents he quoted are in themselves an effective answer to his application that I take some action, as according to said precedents, when words are spoken, no matter what they may be, concerning people outside the house, there is no recourse. In the instance referred to in which I as Speaker ordered certain statements expunged from Hansard and as to which there was objection from the right hon. leader of the opposition, in all of these cases reference had been made to members of this house. The references were not solely to people outside the house. I say that under the rules and precedents of parliamentary procedure the Speaker has no right to order the words complained of by the hon. member for Ottawa expunged. If reference had been made to hon. members of this house the Speaker could deal with them, but there is nothing to prevent this house taking whatever action it may choose, or see fit or be well advised to

5156 COMMONS

Privilege-Mr. Chevrier-Mr. Gobeil

take, concerning the statements made by the hon. member for Compton in this house or by any other hon. member. It is entirely a matter for the house to deal with, and can be done by motion.

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CON
CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin (Speaker of the Senate)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

I think the hon. member

has sufficiently addressed the house on the subject. His position has been made quite clear.

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May 18, 1933